Took car for an alignment, camber off...

[cutchemist42]

So first of all, in the last week I've had to replace the lower control arm, hub, and bearing on my front-driver tire. The car is a 2003 Mazda Protege5. The cause was a few bad potholes I think.

However, after the alignment was done, the camber on that same tire could not be brought back into spec. The FSM has camber limits of +/- .48 degrees. Right now, the tire is sitting at +1.6 and thats the best they could do. The shop was not a full fledged frame shop. They also said nothing looked bent to the human eye to be affecting it more.

They did reccomend a frame shop that might be better able to tell if somethings out.

I was just wondering how worried should I be about that camber measurement for now? Would being off by +.11 degrees be too much stress on the whole suspension/drive axle component?

Thank you.

 

[eljefino]

That ain't right. You want negative camber. This is going to screw your tires up and handle real funny.

There has to be a way they can slot your upper strut mounting position, or, better, do something at the strut-to-knuckle interface like put in camber bolts or elongate the strut holes. May as well measure your track in case your subframe got pushed in slightly.

 

[lexus114]

I just dont understand why we have to put up with such horrible road conditions. What the [censored] do we pay tax`s for then??

 

[cutchemist42]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
That ain't right. You want negative camber. This is going to screw your tires up and handle real funny.

There has to be a way they can slot your upper strut mounting position, or, better, do something at the strut-to-knuckle interface like put in camber bolts or elongate the strut holes. May as well measure your track in case your subframe got pushed in slightly.



I've heard bad things about the use of camber bolts. That evantually they loosen up. Is that true?

 

[JHZR2]

My BMW needs to be done with a specific weighting scheme. My MBs use a spreader bar between the front wheels with a specific force applied.

Are you sure the shop did it the right way?

 

[picman]

Had an issue like this once, discovered after a few $$ that it was a bent axle.

 

[mechanicx]

Is your cross camber +1.1? That is a problem and I imagine it pulls. Something is probably still bent. What is likely to bend is the strut housing and/or rod. Does the bad side seem bound up when you press down on the suspension? I think on that Mazda you can adjust the camber (and also caster) about .5 degrees by unfastening and rotating the strut mount. But that wouldn't get you in spec anyway, but best case scenario if you could add +.5 to the good side and -.5 on the other but that probably isn't going to happen . I think something is bent, probably the strut but it could be something else too.

 

[PandaBear]

Something is bent for sure. Most likely you can fix it with a camber kit. If not, most likely you have to replace some suspension parts.

 

[cutchemist42]

I dont have anything about cross memeber on the sheet. Just said every other tire is in spec except for the front-DRIVER TIRE AT +1.6.

On these Mazdas, you can twist the top of the mount to try to get it inline but what you said is correct; they could not get the right alignment by twisting it.When it comes to steering feel though, there is not any significant pulling.

I get paid this Thursday so can take the car in next week; I just want to know how safe this is? Im also weary of camber bolts because I feel it will just be masking a more serious problem. The camber bolt sounds like too easy of a fix to be ture?

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: cutchemist42
I dont have anything about cross memeber on the sheet. Just said every other tire is in spec except for the front-DRIVER TIRE AT +1.6.


What I was asking is if you are +1.6 on one side, what is it on the other? If it's for example +.5 then the difference or cross camber is +1.1. Cross camber is key.

Quote:
On these Mazdas, you can twist the top of the mount to try to get it inline but what you said is correct; they could not get the right alignment by twisting it.When it comes to steering feel though, there is not any significant pulling.

I get paid this Thursday so can take the car in next week; I just want to know how safe this is? Im also weary of camber bolts because I feel it will just be masking a more serious problem. The camber bolt sounds like too easy of a fix to be ture?


I'm surprised it doesn't pull if the camber is off as much as it sounds. It's not really a safety issue per se, but will probably wear the tires out uneven. Does the out of spec side seem bound up?

 

[IndyIan]

Maybe there is slight differences in the control arms between proteges models and years? A buddy with a 240SX got new control arms that were 1/2" off... That was the difference between generations but the parts book listed the same part number for several 240's.
As for camber bolts, some Neon guys paint everything first and put it together wet to get a bit better hold with good results in race cars. I slotted the top holes on my front struts with with a new file with about 10 minutes of hard work a side. If it moves its not really a huge problem unless you have alot of miles to get home. I had one move during an autocross run and I just went home and read how to torque it properly and its held ever since.

 

[mechanicx]

If you are interested in figuring out what might be bent yourself, if you have the specs, camber, SAI and included angle you can narrow down the problem. Here's a chart http://www.aligncraft.com/terms/terms.html#MacPherson

 

[mechtech2]

The whole engine subframe may have shifted over.
Sometimes loosening the 4 [or so]large bolts and prying the whole thing over fixes tis.
It is a common technique.

Or you can get a 'crash' bolt. The upper bolt for the strut is thinner, and allows more movement to adjust. This is also very common.
My preferred method is to slot the upper strut holes a bi, and use the large stock bolts.

This is slso common, and one of these three should have been considered by you facility.

 

[eljefino]

The camber bolt is not a big deal. My aftermarket saturn struts have long lower holes and the sandwich of the strut around the knuckle, made grippy with ~150 ft lbs on the huge bolts running through, keeps an alignment. There's fairly little force pushing in/out in that area. IDK if camber bolts also have a way to "stake" them from spinning; they probably do if they need to.

My OE struts, being an economy car, have fixed camber so they can throw the cars together more quickly on the assembly line and be close enough. They also have relatively small tabs that can be ground out for the same effect as the aftermarket elongated holes.

The only downer about adjusting at the strut-to-knuckle is your strut and spring will be moving in a slightly different geometry. One degree, if you do the math, is barely anything.

 

[cutchemist42]

Well Im going to arrange for the frame shop Ive been talking with for next week after I get paid. Im about 2 weeks away from biking-to-wor weather anyway so I'll have all summer. I'll probably post in here again next week after frame shop results.

Im starting to be more comfortable with idea of a camber bolt too but we'll see next week.

 

[mechanicx]

Keep us posted on what they find. I would not want to use a tapered down strut bolt to cover for a bent component if that were my car. That car comes with adjustability at the strut mount (and I don't think there are splined bolts at the knuckle like GM uses) and if that can't bring it into range then something is definitely bent, likely the strut.

 

[RH+G]

Sounds like a bent strut. Especially if u damaged that lower arm and bearing

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

There has to be a way they can slot your upper strut mounting position,


That's for setting caster.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: eljefino

There has to be a way they can slot your upper strut mounting position,


That's for setting caster.


Run the slot in a different direction.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

Run the slot in a different direction.

ALLDATA for my Buick says you slot the strut tower for caster, and slot the strut itself for camber. I've had the struts out myself and the strut tower holes have never been slotted. Whenever I take the car in for alignment, I'm gonna tell them NOT to touch the strut tower holes!! I'm not letting nobody to that. I've done sheet metal work in the military and I used to slot holes for mounting brackets that hold the hydraulic oil cooler on a Tomcat engine. I know all the ways the holes can be screwed up if a person doesn't know what they're doing. I'm not letting nobody screw up my strut towers.