ill try to keep this short. i have a 1975 case 446 tractor, my dad bought new, this is a real tractor, ie you can plow with it. now days it sits till winter and then i plow the snow. how ever it didnt start this year. the tractor has had a history of the fuel system failing if it sits some. took a good look at it today, the carb is loose on the manifold, i know how to fix that. iam thinking of putting a electric fuel pump on it. the stock system uses the crankcase pressure to pump fuel, mounted on the carb. it has a float bowel, with a float. i bought an advance auto electric pump, e84070. i did find out it has a pressure output of 4-5.5 pounds. iam planing on useing a pressure regulator, to not over power the float. i think this will work if i block off the crankcase to the carb hose. what think?
case 446
- Thread starter morris
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I assume your 446 has the stock Onan Performer 16hp opposed twin? I have to say I've not heard of many fuel system issues at all with this engine. There are some newer V-twin garden tractors that use small electric pumps (Some Cub 3000 series for instance), so it should work if you can keep the pressure low enough.
Nice tractor BTW. I had the baby version, a Case 220. Rock solid machines for sure. I just never liked the hand controlled HyDrive system.
Joel
Nice tractor BTW. I had the baby version, a Case 220. Rock solid machines for sure. I just never liked the hand controlled HyDrive system.
Joel
yes the onan engine and all the rest of the tractor are completely stock. i found the book for the onan engine. it looks like they used two ways to get fuel to the carb. one way uses the crankcase presure to run a diaphragm that pumps fuel, all on the carb.. i feel this system is not a good way to do it. then there is a different type of plate that just lets fuel in, from a pump, may be from the camshaft.. i think i can modify the stock plate to take pressure from an electronic fuel pump.
Yep there were different systems on the Cases depending on what engine they had. Vacuum/pulse pumps like the one you have tend to be very reliable, but they can struggle depending on the distance they have to pump and restrictions in the system. They can also be effected by heat, slightly warping the case and causing them not to pump well. The Case 440 and under crowd used Kohler-K series singles that had a mechanical fuel pump driven off the crank (or cam?). I know those would last for decades. Like I say, I know Cub 3000 series owners used small universal 12VDC pumps with success. You just have to make sure it doesn't pump more than maybe a psig or three. I bet something like this might work: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-42S-Electric-Fuel/dp/B000BWE4RC
Joel
Joel
yes the mr. gasket would work. but i have bought a airtex (carter) e84070. on mr. gasket i dident like the fittings. i have put LOTS of miles on the carter, once as many as 100k, and still running. i talked to a onan mech and i was right, if change the pump plates and put a plate with no moving parts i can push fuel in. and just not put to much pressure, it will work
Could you not just use the electric fuel pump to prime the carb then shut if off to allow the normal fuel system to take over?
You could feed from the fuel tank and put a "T" on the line to the carb. Flip the switch to engage the electric fuel pump until the engine starts the disengage once the engine is running.
If the original fuel system works with normal engine rpms, but is too weak to pump sufficient fuel to get things started, this might be a solution.
You could feed from the fuel tank and put a "T" on the line to the carb. Flip the switch to engage the electric fuel pump until the engine starts the disengage once the engine is running.
If the original fuel system works with normal engine rpms, but is too weak to pump sufficient fuel to get things started, this might be a solution.
Those old Onan Performers could use two pumps with the way they like fuel!
Great engine though. It's the only horizontally opposed twin I'd want. They'll go over 2000hrs easy, but parts are expensive and getting scarce.
morris, I dunno if you follow any Case/Ingersoll boards, but if you haven't, you will want to pull and de-carbon the cylinder heads at some point on this particular engine. These things will carbon themselves up (with years of use) to the point they become an 'interference engine'. Pistons and things downstream have been known to break due to this. The hardest part is getting all the cooling shrouding off. Headbolts can be a bear too. Owners have tried seafoam and whatnot, but still swear you have to manually remove the carbon.
Joel
Great engine though. It's the only horizontally opposed twin I'd want. They'll go over 2000hrs easy, but parts are expensive and getting scarce.
morris, I dunno if you follow any Case/Ingersoll boards, but if you haven't, you will want to pull and de-carbon the cylinder heads at some point on this particular engine. These things will carbon themselves up (with years of use) to the point they become an 'interference engine'. Pistons and things downstream have been known to break due to this. The hardest part is getting all the cooling shrouding off. Headbolts can be a bear too. Owners have tried seafoam and whatnot, but still swear you have to manually remove the carbon.
Joel
yep you guys have great ideas. i have figured out what to do. i have a plate coming that will take the fuel from the electric fuel pump. i have two switches one is momentary on, to pump up fuel. the other is on. and i have a safety shut off switch, from the oil pressure. yes i have been on "my tractor forum" "jims repair" these site are very very good. i didnt know they carboned up. i think ill put some mmo in the fuel. jim has a v tween to replace the two cyl onan flat. with very few mods. sounds like a cool deal, but i dont have any extra money thanks for the help.
Originally Posted By: morris
jim has a v tween to replace the two cyl onan flat. with very few mods. sounds like a cool deal, but i dont have any extra money thanks for the help.
I believe The V-twin swap is for the later model Case/Ingersolls, where the engine is rotated 180deg from where your Case is. The engine shaft (and hydraulic pump) is to the rear on older Cases like yours and flipped around to the front on later model Case/Ingersoll units. The setups are quite different. If you wan't plug-n-play, you have to use a Kohler-K or Onan intended for a Case. If you're up to the challenge of modding the chassis and body, the sky is the limit for engine swaps.
In regards to your fuel pump deal, I think you may be making it more complicated than you need. I'd just bypass (simply don't use) or blank off the factory fuel pump and use an inexpensive low pressure electric pump in it's place.
Joel
jim has a v tween to replace the two cyl onan flat. with very few mods. sounds like a cool deal, but i dont have any extra money thanks for the help.
I believe The V-twin swap is for the later model Case/Ingersolls, where the engine is rotated 180deg from where your Case is. The engine shaft (and hydraulic pump) is to the rear on older Cases like yours and flipped around to the front on later model Case/Ingersoll units. The setups are quite different. If you wan't plug-n-play, you have to use a Kohler-K or Onan intended for a Case. If you're up to the challenge of modding the chassis and body, the sky is the limit for engine swaps.
In regards to your fuel pump deal, I think you may be making it more complicated than you need. I'd just bypass (simply don't use) or blank off the factory fuel pump and use an inexpensive low pressure electric pump in it's place.
Joel
my engine is old but its in good shape, i dont think changing the engine is a good idea right now. i have the fuel system figured out. i just have to get a filter and some fittings.
to:jtk yes i DO go over board, most of the time. i also tend to over research things. most of my projects end up making 10-20 pages, before i have what i need. i did find and buy the good fuel filter. thats like the one they used on General Motors cars in the 50-60s, the ones i bought are repos. planing on using one in front of the pump and one after, see i told you i go over board. the only reason iam putting one in front of the pump is to trap stuff coming out of the tank. iam thinking of making a video. but i dont want to make it look like i think iam a expert. i realy like this site
Not a bad idea with the filters. I know I had some sediment in the bottom of the gas tank on my 1979 model year Case 220, yet no inline filter between the tank and fuel pump. I always thought it was pretty neat Case used plastic fuel tanks over 30yrs ago. The only problem is the flimsy, tiny filler neck and the [censored] cap.
Same issue with the hydraulic oil tank. The same plastic which is cool, but the same flimsy filler neck and cap. I know on my 220, the cap for the hydraulic oil tank wouldn't snug-up anymore because the 'threads' were gone on the filler neck. On occasion, if I got too jerky with the controls it would blow the cap off the hydraulic tank.
Joel
Same issue with the hydraulic oil tank. The same plastic which is cool, but the same flimsy filler neck and cap. I know on my 220, the cap for the hydraulic oil tank wouldn't snug-up anymore because the 'threads' were gone on the filler neck. On occasion, if I got too jerky with the controls it would blow the cap off the hydraulic tank.
Joel
to: jtk when working with pumps , remember they dont pull as good as they push. if you have a hose that has a lot cracks on the pressure side it wont leek under pressure. BUT put it on the vacuum side and it will pull in air before it will pull fuel. ALL pumps are like that. any time you have trouble with a liquid system, check the suction side first.
the plate to convert to regular fuel system is cummins/onan pn 0149-1983 $47.xx i know thats a lot . but better than butchering a stock fuel pump. its called "cover kit-fuel inlet"
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