why ever use 5W30 or 10W30?

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: exranger06
10w30 is a pretty useless viscosity IMO.


Its still thicker until it gets to full operating temperature,


Which is the BAD thing about it.

Quote:
and some engines dont like too thin an oil, they may spin a bearing.


That statement doesn't compute in this context. The 0W30 oil at any temperature is never thinner than the 10w30 oil at full operating temperature (ideally speaking- I know that there are exceptions). So no engine is going to "spin a bearing" on 0w30 oil if it won't do the same on 10w30.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: unixguru
Besides synthetic 10w30 flows a lot easier in cold than mineral 5w30.


A "synthetic 10w30 that flows better cold than a mineral 5w30???" What you describe IS a 0w30!!!

Why would any oil manufacturer that made such a hypothetical "10w30" ever call it a 10w30 and not the 0w30 that it is?

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: exranger06
10w30 is a pretty useless viscosity IMO.


Its still thicker until it gets to full operating temperature, and some engines dont like too thin an oil, they may spin a bearing.

In the hot 110 degree heat it really doesnt mayyer the 0W, 5W. or 10. even 15W and 20W are "ok" in the hot hot, but realistically 20W isnt needed except for specialty apps, 15W is about the thickest prefix and 10W is ok.

The W number is only "resistance to flow" so if its not 0 degrees outside (even a 10W barely passes muster there,) why the hubbub?


This entire post is... um.. I donno. Odd? A 0w-30 is not thinner than a 10w-30 at operating temps(ceteris paribus), much less at colder temps. How are you going to spin a bearing if the oil is not thinner? I don't get this statement.

The statement about it not being 0 degrees is misleading. Just because it's not 0 deg doesn't mean the oil won't flow better at, say, 30 degrees. Which it does. Better flow in the cold is, well, better.

There is nothing wrong with a 0w-30 oil year-round.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Besides synthetic 10w30 flows a lot easier in cold than mineral 5w30.

Possibly, but you have define "cold" which you haven't done.
A 10W-30 syn will be thicker than a 5W-30 mineral at all temp's down to at least to -30C which pretty much renders a 10W-30 syn as an obsolete oil grade.
A 5W-30 syn and even some 0W-30's (GC) provide all the high temp' protect of a 10W-30 syn' if not more while having much better cold flow properties. And that, in my book is the 10W-30 syn' is obsolete. The only reason it's still sold is that it's cheap to make and for marketing purposes to people who don't know understand motor oil.

 

[bigmike]

There is nothing wrong with a 0w30. I buy and use 5 and 10w30 based on price. I usually find it cheaper than 0w30.

 

[mechtech2]

joaks -
There is no control over the oil temperature. It's minimum is whatever the ambient temperature is, and the maximum is whatever. It can get very hot, indeed.

Even the coolant has no maximum control. The thermostat commonly starts to open at 195F. Once open a bit later, it is open - there is no more help available. But severe conditions or a problem can easily go to harmful numbers.

 

[4ever4d]

I don't think 0w-30 is a "one size fits all" oil for every 30 grade application.That said i'm positive it's a very solid oil and works well for most but,for some apps i think 5w-30 works as well and is cheaper(conventional much) to buy.As far as 10w-30 it probably is for the most part obsolete,with the exception of select older mid and early 90's vehicles still on the road that were specd. for that grade as preferred fill and those truth be told would fare well on a modern 5w-30.

 

[CATERHAM]

Truth is there are very few 0W-30 options available.
There's M1 which is excellent but what else.
GC is not as good as it once was and with a VI of only 167 most 5W-30's are lighter at all temp's except extreme cold.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Truth is there are very few 0W-30 options available.
There's M1 which is excellent but what else.
GC is not as good as it once was and with a VI of only 167 most 5W-30's are lighter at all temp's except extreme cold.


Oh come on CATERHAM.....I know the majority here can't get it but you have to represent!!

 

[CATERHAM]

I did say M1 AFE 0W-30 is an excellent product (which is not available in Canada btw). And we do have some good 0W-30 from PC and Esso that's not available to our US freinds, but that's about it without going to a boutique blender like RL or RLI.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: qdeezie
Yes, you could definitely do 0w-30 all year. There are no issues with it. In fact, if you look on the back of the Mobil 1 0w-30 bottle it tells you that it gives the same protection as 5w-30 and 10w-30 at the normal operating temperature.

In addition to this, you'll have better cold temperature/startup protection as well from the 0w.
I have to disagree, I havent looked at the NEW revised spec, but the previous M1AFE was not long drain capable, did not meet ht06 - so its compromised from the M1 5w30 spec wise prima facie. I would absolutely NOT run a 0w unless you are doing a lot of sub zero starts, It will do nothing for you and work against you v. warmer clime winter multigrades. (rated)


Just to clarify, I did not mention M1 0W-30AFE as an extended OCI product. What I meant was that it can be used throughout the year (regular OCIs) without risk. Also, a general question, why would companies such as Mobil/Castrol/Amsoil take the risk of promoting 0w-30 (and sell it everywhere in the south where it gets hot Hot HOT during the summer) as a product that gives the same (or better) protection as 5w or 10w if it was not up to the task? I sometimes think that 0w-xx oils are looked at the same way 5w-xx oils were looked at years ago. (i.e. clipper oil) In my opinion, with normal 5k-6k OCIs, the average street engine will easily survive hundreds of thousands of miles whether it be 10w, 5w or 0w.

 

[jagger]

I have a car that consumes oil, so I always use 10w30. If I move to 5w30 or 0w30, will it increase oil consumption, or remain the same?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: jagger
I have a car that consumes oil, so I always use 10w30. If I move to 5w30 or 0w30, will it increase oil consumption, or remain the same?

Presumably you're using a dino 10W-30.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
As far as 10w-30 it probably is for the most part obsolete,with the exception of select older mid and early 90's vehicles still on the road that were specd. for that grade as preferred fill and those truth be told would fare well on a modern 5w-30.


Heck, I don't even use 10w30 in my SIXTIES engines now that 5w30, 0w30, 0w40, and 5w40 synthetics are available with fewer VIIs than 10w30s needed 20 years ago. There really isn't much need for it at all, except that possibly no-name bargain-basement non-synthetics might do a little better (in terms of shear-stability) in that grade.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
As far as 10w-30 it probably is for the most part obsolete,with the exception of select older mid and early 90's vehicles still on the road that were specd. for that grade as preferred fill and those truth be told would fare well on a modern 5w-30.


Heck, I don't even use 10w30 in my SIXTIES engines now that 5w30, 0w30, 0w40, and 5w40 synthetics are available with fewer VIIs than 10w30s needed 20 years ago. There really isn't much need for it at all, except that possibly no-name bargain-basement non-synthetics might do a little better (in terms of shear-stability) in that grade.


I agree.....I've privately considered 10w-30 as obsolete for years. I think sometimes when people see how freely 5w or 0w pours out of the bottle, they think that it doesn't protect as well when it gets hot. I think oil technology has advanced so far over the years, that the concerns of yesteryear aren't really there anymore for me.

 

[ltslimjim]

For cars calling for 5w-30, or 10w-30 during the summer, 0w-30 fully synthetic oil provides the best lubrication for your engine most likely.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Sure a 0W or 5W oil may have a higher percentage of VI's and higher burn-off under laboratory conditions, but this disregards the way most people drive. If you're consistently running your car for more than 20 minutes every time you turn it over, and you're using an inexpensive mineral-based oil, then the lower VI/NOAK oil may have some advantages. How long do you think the average trip is in an automobile??


That's exactly the situation in my Audi. All the trips are longer, with few cold starts (and generally in a heated garage). GC consumed, M1 5w-30 consumed, QS GB 5w-30 consumed, and QS GB 10w-30 is going better. The specified 15w-40 and 0w-40 and 5w-40 are without issues. Because of my driving habits, consumption pattern, and preference for conventional, I've been using 10w-30.

CATERHAM pointed out that 10w-30 is essentially obsolete. I wouldn't go quite that far. There certainly are applications where it can be used with a great deal of confidence, and to an advantage. All things being equal, it tends to be advantageous to go the 5w-30 route, and the 0w-30 route if one wishes to pay the costs involved.

I could run 0w-40 all year round, but at roughly $10 per litre, it's more economical to switch between 10w-30 and 15w-40 at $2 per litre. Besides, I have to do something with all the QS GB I have.

 

[CATERHAM]

Garak, you're talking about a 10-30 dino not a synthetic.
Also you're using oil consumption as the gauge of what oil is "better" and quite frankly that's the last criterion I use to judge a lubricant.

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: exranger06
10w30 is a pretty useless viscosity IMO.


Its still thicker until it gets to full operating temperature,


Which is the BAD thing about it.

Quote:
and some engines dont like too thin an oil, they may spin a bearing.


That statement doesn't compute in this context. The 0W30 oil at any temperature is never thinner than the 10w30 oil at full operating temperature (ideally speaking- I know that there are exceptions). So no engine is going to "spin a bearing" on 0w30 oil if it won't do the same on 10w30.


If 10W-30 is completely useless, im switching to GC

other than that, my car came FF with 10W-30 so why wouldnt i use it in a HM oil ?

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Truth is there are very few 0W-30 options available.
There's M1 which is excellent but what else.
GC is not as good as it once was and with a VI of only 167 most 5W-30's are lighter at all temp's except extreme cold.


Im considering GC, as long as it doesnt turn my engine into a "leaker." add some MMO in the GC (thats unique to me, cleaning desired) - if it doesnt leak i should be ok, switching FROM Hi-mi 10W-30 bend w MMO.
Why is a VI of "only" 167 bad? and how did GC deteriorate in quality?

Its getting reformulated next month, to the same specs as present GC (new name so if formulation changed and secs didnt its still like old GC w new formulation)