Should I use zMax

[ahoier]

Not a fan of the zMax price tag, and after the whole commosion/lawsuit with zMax a while back, I don't know if I'd trust it.....if I recall, the judge basically stated in their findings it showed no improvements that the product stated.....

Seafoam and/or Marvel Mystery Oil - on the other hand, are tried and tested and you'll find fan clubs all over the Internet and local mom and pop garages that support those 2

Though I've never had either additive "save" any vehicle, I have experienced their cleaning power within a short OCI...and am a believer.

In the end, it all depends on what you are wanting out of the product.....if you want to just clean up any possibility of sludge/varnish within the engine, sure, go ahead and give the seafoam or MMO a try. As far as zMax.....I'm not sure exactly what it's "advantages" are....If I recall, there was some talk about it "soaking into metal" or something lol.....that almost sounds like that "Restore" stuff, which seeks out weak/hot spots within the engine/head/cylinders.....but who knows

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: ahoier
Not a fan of the zMax price tag, and after the whole commosion/lawsuit with zMax a while back, I don't know if I'd trust it.....if I recall, the judge basically stated in their findings it showed no improvements that the product stated....


Ditto. Has zMax been reformulated since their FTC smackdown, or did they just change the wording on the box? I always thought their claim that it 'soaked' into metal was ludicrous, especially after the FTC showed all the different formulas were simply tinted mineral oil.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Not to start a fight or pick sides here...but why would you link to the outdated allegations and charges and NOT link to the outcome of the FTC filing? Isn't the final outcome of the FTC filing infinitely more important than the allegations were?

From what I read in the other thread these questions you are raising have already been addressed and answered to the FTC's satisfaction. Seems disengenuous to post the allegations with no regard to the actual outcome, especially when the ruling is readily available...why ignore it?

 

[scurvy]

I assume you're referring to me, although your post is in reply to someone else. The final settlement is linked on the FTC page, but here it is again for someone who doesn't bother to click around:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0023256/030321stip0023256.pdf

The outcome is that zMax had to change their advertising or have actual substantiated scientific expert evidence to support their claims, didn't have to admit any wrongdoing but did have to pay out a million dollars in rebates.

If their product did what they said it did, why did they have to pay out one million US dollars?

racetek27 (Ed Rachanski Jr., an employee of Oil-Chem, who makes zMax) has already PM'd me and accused me of making false & misleading comments, shilling another product instead when I have only pointed out the FTC's allegations & settlement, then offered what is clearly my opinion.

Sorry, guys. Completely my opinion as an private citizen with a degree in mechanical engineering & many years of hands-on experience, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has been accused by the FTC of being a duck, makes the claim that it 'soaks into metal' & was forced to pay out $1,000,000 in rebates... then it's a duck.

 

[racetek27]

If your going to point out information, please post thorough,complete and accurate information. You haven't. Your picking and choosing negative info to post..... skipping the conclusive and positive facts for zMax.

The 1 million payout was for an error due to the independent marketing company placing a percentage number next to the fuel mileage claim which is not allowed. Just read and comprehend.

And yes... your comments for the record are incorrect and false !
There has been extensive information previously posted by Johnny. Go back and you'll find it

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: racetek27
If your going to point out information, please post thorough,complete and accurate information.


Would if I could.

All I can find is the FTC's allegations & ruling on one side, your unsubstantiated claims on the other side (as you are employed by Oil-Chem Research Corp., the manufacturer of zMax).

Can you please post the technical whitepapers on the measurements taken of zMax that directly substantiate the advertising claims, including gauge R&Rs and the measurement methodology? My agenda as a scientific skeptic is open for all to see, as is your agenda as the product's manufacturer.

What I do know is that unmodified engine oil seems to be working fine in my vehicles and I have yet to see any evidence that zMax will somehow improve its operating characteristics to provide any sort of return on the purchase price. YMMV.

 

[Trajan]

The FTC case was resolved long ago. Zmax is still in business and selling.

The FTC is *not* going after it *now*.

Funny how the detractors fail to realize that.

 

[hardcore302]

Mineral oil with food coloring, give or take,...

 

[CourierDriver]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Mineral oil with food coloring, give or take,...
isnt zmax the product in that High School chemistry flask, if it is,,thats a high priced flower vase, well u guys can give the flask to the wife for a flower vase i guess.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Mineral oil with food coloring, give or take,...
isnt zmax the product in that High School chemistry flask, if it is,,thats a high priced flower vase, well u guys can give the flask to the wife for a flower vase i guess.

 

[CourierDriver]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Mineral oil with food coloring, give or take,...
isnt zmax the product in that High School chemistry flask, if it is,,thats a high priced flower vase, well u guys can give the flask to the wife for a flower vase i guess.

very good, very very good

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Mineral oil with food coloring, give or take,...
isnt zmax the product in that High School chemistry flask, if it is,,thats a high priced flower vase, well u guys can give the flask to the wife for a flower vase i guess.

Too funny. I'm glad I didn't have coke in my mouth when I saw that.

-Spyder

 

[Summerwind]

Just "wonderin" if any of the nay sayers here have taken a gulp of the product to confirm that it is indeed "only" colored mineral oil?

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Summerwind
Just "wonderin" if any of the nay sayers here have taken a gulp of the product to confirm that it is indeed "only" colored mineral oil?

I laughed at the pic, but in defense of zMAX I will say that I have used it (as my many posts in another thread indicate) and that it definitely does certain things, as confirmed from my own experience and that of others who tried it and posted. All of us with cold start lifter tick saw the noise muted or eliminated shortly after adding zMAX to the engine oil. I also added it to the fuel and there it seemed to produce an effect similar to a good PEA cleaning.

I was also in the process, during the OCI it was used on, of doing some slow, gentle engine cleaning and I believe it helped that process along as well (I can't prove it for any skeptics who want to see some, but I'm not posting this to prove anything anyway).

In the end I concluded the test was worthwhile, and I don't regret trying the product out; however, for reasons of cost and an oil consumption issue that (for whatever reason) increased over the zMAX OCI (it didn't persist after the oil was changed), the product is not for me. However, that doesn't take anything away from the positive results I saw it produce, nor mean that it isn't the right product for others - I can't say what is for who and I'm not the type to try and dictate to others how they spend their money on their engines.

I consider additives unique and unique to the needs of the individual contemplating them. One of my only pet peeves on this site is how quick people who have no experience, and too often are misinformed or completely uninformed about a product, are to criticize it and imply things like consumers who purchase and using additive X are flushing money away, etc.

I never could grasp why the small group of BITOGERs who are totally anti-additive (of any type) waste so much of their time trolling forums that are exclusively about additives to preach their own beliefs to the rest of us. I frankly could care less what someone with no experience with a product, and probably very limited knowledge of it as well, thinks about it (that is not addressed to you Summerwind).

-Spyder

 

[jonny-b]

I totally agree with you, about the anti-additve crowd.
I also have the same experience that you have, with zMax/Avblend. Except that one of the cars I used it in, STOPPED using oil. I had not used any additives in this car, since I bought it used, and had only driven some 3000 km with it, before adding zMax(and also had to add 1 liter of oil, during that time).
I changed oil the same day I bought it.

The negative thing I see with xMax, is that you have to add it every OC.
It seem to do some cleaning.

 

[unDummy]

180k 7.5L V8 engine is a perfect test candidate. Pull off a valve cover for inspection and pictures. Get a compression test. Change the oil/filter, add the Zmax, run it for 4.5k, and compare.

 

[Tempest]

By their own documentation, it is a long chain hydrocarbon (liquid wax in this case). These molecules are specifically refined (actually cracked) out of motor oil in order improve pour point. It's one of the necessary steps on how you move from a Grp I to Grp II and beyond.

So by adding this to your motor oil, you are reconverting it back into a Grp I oil.

Supporters of this product, and most especially the sellers, will do anything to avoid this inconvenient truth.

They will also tell you that one of the ways it "works" is by removing heat from the metal. This is an interesting claim since Grp I has much less desirable heat transfer properties than do the higher grades, especially the waxless PAO.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

So by adding this to your motor oil, you are reconverting it back into a Grp I oil.



So, adding a bottle did that to 7qts of M1 0w-40.....

Prove it.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7

I never could grasp why the small group of BITOGERs who are totally anti-additive (of any type) waste so much of their time trolling forums that are exclusively about additives to preach their own beliefs to the rest of us. I frankly could care less what someone with no experience with a product, and probably very limited knowledge of it as well
-Spyder


Are you kidding?

If there is any "preaching" going on about the almighty additives, its from those who pump 'em up as the latest/greatest miracle in a can.

Besides, even if, I mean even IF too many to suit you were posting against additives, what the heck is this (and other forums like it) there for? Discussion of the topics! Do you want a pro-additive only site?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
By their own documentation, it is a long chain hydrocarbon (liquid wax in this case). These molecules are specifically refined (actually cracked) out of motor oil in order improve pour point. It's one of the necessary steps on how you move from a Grp I to Grp II and beyond.

So by adding this to your motor oil, you are reconverting it back into a Grp I oil.

Supporters of this product, and most especially the sellers, will do anything to avoid this inconvenient truth.

They will also tell you that one of the ways it "works" is by removing heat from the metal. This is an interesting claim since Grp I has much less desirable heat transfer properties than do the higher grades, especially the waxless PAO.


You realize that grp I adds areused for solubilizing the add packs in other oils too, right? Does an OE formulated oil that has adds solubilized in group I count as a group I oil too?

Not sure I buy your logic.

I think that if you look through the other thread, there is no comfort that any true mechanism that has been proposed is valid. What has been noted is that it will do something in some cases. We can move logically from there.