Declining DIY Market
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I used to do oil changes for half of of my old neighborhood. Now it's rare that I even change my own oil. I usually go to my friend's garage. I supply the oil and filter. I'm very picky( I use only Pennzoil Platinum, Pennzoil Ultra or Mobil 1 EP with Bosch Distance Plus, Mobil 1 or Pure One filters). I give him $10 and he deals with the burned fingers and oil dripping everywhere. He even takes the old oil for use in his waste-oil furnace.
It makes me wonder how much of that stuff they have in the barrels is not actually some "Line Wash" or "old out of spec oil". Just because a barrel is marked abcxyg oil does not mean that that type of oil is in the barrel. If you do bring your own oil, how to you really be sure that they replaced it with what you bring? This is especially difficult if they have a waiting area for customers and access to view the work is off limits. IMO....If you can't see what they are doing how do you know if it has been done the way you wanted it?
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: cp3
Maybe I'm worse, I want to know it's done right and I'm cheap!
I agree. I don't want to pay more than is necessary. If I wanted my crankcase filled from a random barrel without any attention made to grade or spec, I'd buy a random barrel and keep it in my garage.
Additionally, I want the correct amount of oil replaced, I want the drain plug in properly (i.e. not left on the floor or put on with an impact),and I want the proper filter installed. I don't want them to mismatch my coolant, either, or put in bug wash in the winter, or any of the other goodies they've been known to perform.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: cp3
Maybe I'm worse, I want to know it's done right and I'm cheap!
I agree. I don't want to pay more than is necessary. If I wanted my crankcase filled from a random barrel without any attention made to grade or spec, I'd buy a random barrel and keep it in my garage.
Additionally, I want the correct amount of oil replaced, I want the drain plug in properly (i.e. not left on the floor or put on with an impact),and I want the proper filter installed. I don't want them to mismatch my coolant, either, or put in bug wash in the winter, or any of the other goodies they've been known to perform.
I have always changed my own oil in my cars for many of the same reasons mentioned here: knowing it is done right, using my favorite oil and filter each bought on some kind of deal, observing the engine from below, and of course greasing the grease fittings.
The DIYer knows its been done right, and that is peace of mind and the satisfaction of doing a good job.
Just my 0.02
The DIYer knows its been done right, and that is peace of mind and the satisfaction of doing a good job.
Just my 0.02
I think I would still change my own oil even if it cost less to have someone do it for me or if they did it for free.
I'm skipping my 3 free dealer Syntec 5w-40 changes, in favour of a loose filter and a wink.
i am 36, and most of my friends do not change their own oil (or do any mechanical work on their cars for that matter). my neighbors, of all ages, are the same way. whenever my car is on ramps, for an oil change, they always ask what is wrong with my car.
sometimes, i wish my friends would try maintaining their cars. i really love doing it.
when it was younger, i did it to save money. now, i do it because it is fun.
sometimes, i wish my friends would try maintaining their cars. i really love doing it.
when it was younger, i did it to save money. now, i do it because it is fun.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I change the oil and do other maintenance myself not just to save money, but mainly because I don't want anybody touching my car. I know the job is done right.
+2.
If I can DIY it, the job get's done in my garage, not my mechanics. I guess I am a control freak when it comes to who touches our cars.
I change the oil and do other maintenance myself not just to save money, but mainly because I don't want anybody touching my car. I know the job is done right.
+2.
If I can DIY it, the job get's done in my garage, not my mechanics. I guess I am a control freak when it comes to who touches our cars.
It seems cars are requiring less and less maintenance. Only oil and filter, air filter, and coolant changes nowdays. Much of that small amount is deferred, even.
People are growing up in a world of clean hands, electronics, computers, stainless steel, and "people that will do that for you." Not many Dads have a collection of tools like we do. Moms buy cookies instead of bake them. Kids never leave their phone or computer.
Face it, we're special. A dying breed.
People are growing up in a world of clean hands, electronics, computers, stainless steel, and "people that will do that for you." Not many Dads have a collection of tools like we do. Moms buy cookies instead of bake them. Kids never leave their phone or computer.
Face it, we're special. A dying breed.
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I'm afraid I have to jump on the bandwagon and agree that people who do their own maintenance or repairs are becoming rare. I am thirty and I would be willing to bet that well over half of the guys I graduated with would have no idea how to change their oil, much less the females. Have you talked to any of the kids graduating high school these days? Most of them would have a hard time checking their oil let alone changing it.
The other day I had to advise someone about what the readings on their dipstick meant in a nice new Volvo. It was a quart low and they were perplexed as to what to do about it as they had "just had the oil changed." They had the manual out to see what it said. Actually, since they had so little knowledge I was rather impressed that they had the good sense to at least check the dipstick.
I think living arrangements also have a LOT to do with a declining DIY market.
There are a lot more condo developments being put up rather than single houses, and a lot of these developments come with strict 'no car work' clauses that are enforced.
I'm pretty well the ONLY person in my condo that opens their hood for ANYTHING. I've never seen another person other than myself ever check oil, add washer fluid...I only see hood up if a car won't start in the cold.
There are a lot more condo developments being put up rather than single houses, and a lot of these developments come with strict 'no car work' clauses that are enforced.
I'm pretty well the ONLY person in my condo that opens their hood for ANYTHING. I've never seen another person other than myself ever check oil, add washer fluid...I only see hood up if a car won't start in the cold.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I'm pretty well the ONLY person in my condo that opens their hood for ANYTHING.
But then again maybe all the other tenants dont need to as they get their oil safely changed well in advance of your iffy 20000 km!
I'm pretty well the ONLY person in my condo that opens their hood for ANYTHING.
But then again maybe all the other tenants dont need to as they get their oil safely changed well in advance of your iffy 20000 km!
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Well, these days, most people are going to spend in the 25-45K range for a new vehicle. Changing the oil on most vehicles is a relatively easy thing to do. Most oil change shops or garages that do oil changes hire kids right out of high school with questionable mechanical skills to do the oil changes. The "bulk" barrels of oil that most shops pump your oil out of are basically pumping "mystery" oil into your expensive car; who knows for sure what viscosity, what brand, whether or not the brands are mixed, etc. And I've seen some of those barrels of oil that look extremely dirty, so who knows if any of that dirt gets into the barrel or not! Their brand of oil filter is questionable, probably Champ Labs made. Needless to say by now, for peace of mind, I change my own oil!
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
MB dealer near my house charges $250 for an oil change, most MB engines need 8-9 quarts M1 0W40 and they provide a MB C-Class 1 day free rental (actually the rental is included in the oil change price of $250).
Do it myself costs me less than $30 (oil bought on sale plus rebate) and 45-60 minutes only rather than make an appointment, drive to dealer, wait inline, talk to service rep, get a car rental, return to dealer to get the car after paying big check. The total time to/from and at dealer is about 90-120 minutes.
HaHaHa that is insane. $250 I know its a MB dealer and most that bring their cars there can afford that but still..........I don't know what to say but wow.
The same for Honda and Lexus, I save more than 70% with DIY and I get to do it whenever I feel like it, weekday evening or night or Saturday-Sunday morning ...
MB dealer near my house charges $250 for an oil change, most MB engines need 8-9 quarts M1 0W40 and they provide a MB C-Class 1 day free rental (actually the rental is included in the oil change price of $250).
Do it myself costs me less than $30 (oil bought on sale plus rebate) and 45-60 minutes only rather than make an appointment, drive to dealer, wait inline, talk to service rep, get a car rental, return to dealer to get the car after paying big check. The total time to/from and at dealer is about 90-120 minutes.
HaHaHa that is insane. $250 I know its a MB dealer and most that bring their cars there can afford that but still..........I don't know what to say but wow.
The same for Honda and Lexus, I save more than 70% with DIY and I get to do it whenever I feel like it, weekday evening or night or Saturday-Sunday morning ...
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
Face it, we're special. A dying breed.
Sad but true..
Face it, we're special. A dying breed.
Sad but true..
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I think living arrangements also have a LOT to do with a declining DIY market.
There are a lot more condo developments being put up rather than single houses, and a lot of these developments come with strict 'no car work' clauses that are enforced.
I'm pretty well the ONLY person in my condo that opens their hood for ANYTHING. I've never seen another person other than myself ever check oil, add washer fluid...I only see hood up if a car won't start in the cold.
your neighbors say "that guy's cavalier must be junk, he always has the hood open". It's happened to me, I got the hood popped up to check the oil. some schmoe walks by and asks me if I need help.
I think living arrangements also have a LOT to do with a declining DIY market.
There are a lot more condo developments being put up rather than single houses, and a lot of these developments come with strict 'no car work' clauses that are enforced.
I'm pretty well the ONLY person in my condo that opens their hood for ANYTHING. I've never seen another person other than myself ever check oil, add washer fluid...I only see hood up if a car won't start in the cold.
your neighbors say "that guy's cavalier must be junk, he always has the hood open". It's happened to me, I got the hood popped up to check the oil. some schmoe walks by and asks me if I need help.
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This certainly has an impact. I can't do my own maintenance in my apartment parking lot. I can understand that one since it isn't my property, they don't want people leaving a mess or working on 5 clunkers every weekend, not to mention there just isn't enough room to work safely. Condos and some town homes (depending on how parking is arranged) have the same issue.
I understand that even some housing developments that have homeowner associations have rules against this on your own property (not sure how enforceable those HOA rules are). That's going a bit far. In those, I guess you need to have a garage to hide your mechanical skills in. Or buy property in the country where nobody tells you what to do.
That being said, I'm starting to do more maintenance on my own again by going to a family members house, or finding some arrangement that works out. Especially for simple things. I enjoy it, and I know it is being done right. I may not have the tools or time to do everything, but I did just save myself over $200 a few weeks ago by relying on myself to do a brake job and oil change. Plus it was fun.
Living arrangements aside, the biggest factor in declining DIY is just a lack of interest (or knowledge) for the average person. People choose to spend their time on other things. Schools don't teach automotive tech classes any more... they teach art and college prep instead. If you don't read up on your own, or know someone who can teach you, where do you learn? I'm fortunate enough to have someone who was able to teach me a good set of mechanical skills.
I've had more than one person ask my what was wrong with my car when just checking oil, transmission fluid, the air filter, battery, etc. Many people just don't understand or care. If it it can be driven, that's good enough. Maybe they get an oil change every once in a while (plus the other "added services" that so many cheap shops and quick lubes like to add).
I understand that even some housing developments that have homeowner associations have rules against this on your own property (not sure how enforceable those HOA rules are). That's going a bit far. In those, I guess you need to have a garage to hide your mechanical skills in. Or buy property in the country where nobody tells you what to do.
That being said, I'm starting to do more maintenance on my own again by going to a family members house, or finding some arrangement that works out. Especially for simple things. I enjoy it, and I know it is being done right. I may not have the tools or time to do everything, but I did just save myself over $200 a few weeks ago by relying on myself to do a brake job and oil change. Plus it was fun.
Living arrangements aside, the biggest factor in declining DIY is just a lack of interest (or knowledge) for the average person. People choose to spend their time on other things. Schools don't teach automotive tech classes any more... they teach art and college prep instead. If you don't read up on your own, or know someone who can teach you, where do you learn? I'm fortunate enough to have someone who was able to teach me a good set of mechanical skills.
I've had more than one person ask my what was wrong with my car when just checking oil, transmission fluid, the air filter, battery, etc. Many people just don't understand or care. If it it can be driven, that's good enough. Maybe they get an oil change every once in a while (plus the other "added services" that so many cheap shops and quick lubes like to add).
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
MB dealer near my house charges $250 for an oil change, most MB engines need 8-9 quarts M1 0W40 and they provide a MB C-Class 1 day free rental (actually the rental is included in the oil change price of $250).
Do it myself costs me less than $30 (oil bought on sale plus rebate) and 45-60 minutes only rather than make an appointment, drive to dealer, wait inline, talk to service rep, get a car rental, return to dealer to get the car after paying big check. The total time to/from and at dealer is about 90-120 minutes.
The same for Honda and Lexus, I save more than 70% with DIY and I get to do it whenever I feel like it, weekday evening or night or Saturday-Sunday morning ...
HMMM.... "Saturday-Sunday morning..." What time did you start on Saturday night?
Did the 1st oil change on the wife's SC400 last week. "SOMEBODY" (or "...BODIES") over time (it is, after all, a 17 year-old vehicle) managed to mangle 4 of the 10 fasteners for the underbody panel, stripping the threads on both the bolts and/or the holes, replacing them with an unholy mix of oversized sheet metal screws, oversized bolts, etc. After I got the panel off (and stopped cursing) I found that the oil filter had been put on so tightly that I needed to dig out my old, trusty oil filter strap wrench...
Opps! Not the big one, the small one. (I just know it is in here somewhere: it was just last decade that I used the small one the last time...)
Now, how do you get a strap wrench around the filter when it is so tight to the wiring harness that you can barely slip the metal strap between it and the wires? Good thing this appears to be the ground cable (I hope!). Now, how do you get it to turn since they put the oil cooler/ps lines(?) right in the way? These Lexus engineers must have learned from the Germans how to design something so that it is almost impossible to access without the "correct factory tool" (Ever try to loosen an alternator, p/s, a/c or tensioner on a W126-Series V8 without the "Special MB-Approved tool" that looks like 1/2 a swastika?)
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(p.s. It actually can be done if you are willing to grind away about 1/2 the side of a 17mm box end wrench so as to get it on the nut/bolt...)
So, now I get to look for the right sized NYLON fasteners plus larger washers (the boys & girls at the Stealerships and/or fast oil change places managed to FINALLY "remove the underbody panel" by merely ripping it off when they couldn't get the fasteners off)... Must not have used the air wrench a time or two!
TOTAL COST: 5 quarts Spectrum 5W-30 $7.49, NAPA Gold filter $3.49, misc. fasteners, washers, etc. from stock = $10.98
On the other hand changing the oil & filter on the W126 was just a dream: didn't even spill one single drop of oil from the drain plug, the filter canister, O-ring or crush washer!
TOTAL COST: Hengst filter $6.67 (by the doz.), 4 quarts 20W-50 SynPower & 4 quarts 20W-50 MaxLife @ $0.99 after rebate = $14.59
Ahhh! Those German engineers!
Cheers!
MB dealer near my house charges $250 for an oil change, most MB engines need 8-9 quarts M1 0W40 and they provide a MB C-Class 1 day free rental (actually the rental is included in the oil change price of $250).
Do it myself costs me less than $30 (oil bought on sale plus rebate) and 45-60 minutes only rather than make an appointment, drive to dealer, wait inline, talk to service rep, get a car rental, return to dealer to get the car after paying big check. The total time to/from and at dealer is about 90-120 minutes.
The same for Honda and Lexus, I save more than 70% with DIY and I get to do it whenever I feel like it, weekday evening or night or Saturday-Sunday morning ...
HMMM.... "Saturday-Sunday morning..." What time did you start on Saturday night?
Did the 1st oil change on the wife's SC400 last week. "SOMEBODY" (or "...BODIES") over time (it is, after all, a 17 year-old vehicle) managed to mangle 4 of the 10 fasteners for the underbody panel, stripping the threads on both the bolts and/or the holes, replacing them with an unholy mix of oversized sheet metal screws, oversized bolts, etc. After I got the panel off (and stopped cursing) I found that the oil filter had been put on so tightly that I needed to dig out my old, trusty oil filter strap wrench...
Opps! Not the big one, the small one. (I just know it is in here somewhere: it was just last decade that I used the small one the last time...)
Now, how do you get a strap wrench around the filter when it is so tight to the wiring harness that you can barely slip the metal strap between it and the wires? Good thing this appears to be the ground cable (I hope!). Now, how do you get it to turn since they put the oil cooler/ps lines(?) right in the way? These Lexus engineers must have learned from the Germans how to design something so that it is almost impossible to access without the "correct factory tool" (Ever try to loosen an alternator, p/s, a/c or tensioner on a W126-Series V8 without the "Special MB-Approved tool" that looks like 1/2 a swastika?)
--[
|
|
|
|
|
____|
|
|
|
|
|
|
]-
(p.s. It actually can be done if you are willing to grind away about 1/2 the side of a 17mm box end wrench so as to get it on the nut/bolt...)
So, now I get to look for the right sized NYLON fasteners plus larger washers (the boys & girls at the Stealerships and/or fast oil change places managed to FINALLY "remove the underbody panel" by merely ripping it off when they couldn't get the fasteners off)... Must not have used the air wrench a time or two!
TOTAL COST: 5 quarts Spectrum 5W-30 $7.49, NAPA Gold filter $3.49, misc. fasteners, washers, etc. from stock = $10.98
On the other hand changing the oil & filter on the W126 was just a dream: didn't even spill one single drop of oil from the drain plug, the filter canister, O-ring or crush washer!
TOTAL COST: Hengst filter $6.67 (by the doz.), 4 quarts 20W-50 SynPower & 4 quarts 20W-50 MaxLife @ $0.99 after rebate = $14.59
Ahhh! Those German engineers!
Cheers!
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Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
your neighbors say "that guy's cavalier must be junk, he always has the hood open". It's happened to me, I got the hood popped up to check the oil. some schmoe walks by and asks me if I need help.
"Yeah, I was just trying to find a dipstick and here you are. Thanks, buddy!"
your neighbors say "that guy's cavalier must be junk, he always has the hood open". It's happened to me, I got the hood popped up to check the oil. some schmoe walks by and asks me if I need help.
"Yeah, I was just trying to find a dipstick and here you are. Thanks, buddy!"
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