ARX possible VVT damage

[Trav]

A friend of mine over in Germany was using oil from the PX he got an American friend, he ran it like he would German full synthetic and ended up with a very minor sludge problem.

Last year i brought him 2 bottles or ARX (when i still drank the Kool Aid).He ran it for 6k km,he reported the engine is making horrible noises. This trip i took a look at it and found ARX has broken off small pieces instead of liquefying it.
The small filter for the VVT was totally plugged.

We changed the small nylon filter but the noise is still there, it appears mechanical damage is done.

I feel quite the fool for recommending this stuff to him. Now i am bringing some Kreen back late next week when i return although it probably won’t do any good at this point.

The majority of the deposits remain in this engine, very unsatisfactory results in fact the results could not be worse.
The engine is a 1.4 in a 2003 Toyota Corolla, the 1.8 U.S. engine also uses this small filter. Anyone considering this product in a Toyota 4 with said filter should take note.

Info: The filter is on the side of the block behind a 14mm bolt behind the alternator.

 

[sciphi]

Interesting. Are you going to have it apart to check if the VVT mechanism is damaged?

 

[Trav]

Maybe.I'm not sure how he wants to proceed with this,he may trade it in for a bigger car depending on how much this repair cost.

 

[INDYMAC]

How many times did he change the small oil filter during the 6k km run on his sludged engine? Like most of us with sludged or high mileage engines, we had to change normal sized filters about every 600-1500 miles during the clean and rinse phases.

 

[JCC]

I have some experience with the 1.8 engine's VVT and it usually is pretty hard to damage. There is an external solenoid valve to control timing by bleeding off oil pressure that could be mucked up with particles. Low oil pressure inside the VVT gear will keep the startup locking pin in place and if pressure is marginal could cycle back and forth making a noise. A solvent additive like Marvel Mystery Oil or Sea Foam might help.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Trav:
This screen is behind the VVTI spool valve on the head? I have a 1.5L 1NZFE with VVTi. Bet mine could use a clean.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
How many times did he change the small oil filter during the 6k km run on his sludged engine? Like most of us with sludged or high mileage engines, we had to change normal sized filters about every 600-1500 miles during the clean and rinse phases.


He didn't even know it existed,he did change the normal oil filter however.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Trav:
This screen is behind the VVTI spool valve on the head? I have a 1.5L 1NZFE with VVTi. Bet mine could use a clean.


Yes that sounds right.

 

[expat]

The pics that cronk posted of his oil filter during his 'Before and After' ARX test showed some sizable particles, and that was after the oil had passed through the oil pump screen!

It has been claimed that Arx works on the Sludge/metal interface, rather than dissolving the actual sludge (like a solvent)
Perhaps then it's no surprise we see this large particulate matter loose in the engine?

 

[dparm]

God, those pictures are frightening.

 

[Solo2driver]

Wow, he put a sludge-cleaning product in his engine, and the sludge came off in the filter. Sounds like it worked.

I think this "problem" probably would have occurred with any cleaning product short of using an HDEO or if PU worked as advertised.

Sorry for the attitude, it just seems that he had sludge. He put something in to get rid of it. It worked. He just had a lot of sludge, and probably did not change the filter often enough and ignored another filter/screen. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Trav]

It looked more like carbon to me,it was hard small pieces similar to the ones pictured.The sludge remained.It may have cleaned the piston rings but that was not the reason he wanted this product.

It is advertised as a sludge removal product and that job it didn't do.
In this case a different type of solvent would probably been a better way to go.That's the reason i am bringing Kreen back,it does dissolve carbon and sludge.

One poster here always touts the fact that it cleans rings and whatever deposits are under the valve cover are meaningless.
I disagree this product is specifically sold as a sludge removal product.

From the ARX site.
"Slow methodical cleaning is the desired cleaning mode, unlike old solvent technology that can chunk off dangerous contamination deposits"

It seems to have done nothing it is advertised to do except maybe create a little mayhem.

 

[Steve S]

The maintenace was neglected now the magic potion is being blamed?

 

[demarpaint]

Those pictures look like hard carbon, not good, I MMO or a solvent would break that down better. It would dissolve it more so it would safely pass thru the engine into the filter. Big clunks are not good. That can plug things up, scratch and score areas as well, that is not good! If any of that found its way into a bearing, ouch!

 

[dparm]

Yeah I must agree that the filter has carbon on it, not sludge. The filter caught it, which is good.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
The maintenace was neglected now the magic potion is being blamed?


So we blame the owner for finding himself in a position where the use of a cleaning product is necessary?

simply this..
If the product worked as advertised and actually liquefied the junk instead of breaking it off then this issue would never have happened.
It is after all advertised as a gentle cleaner without the supposedly negative effects of so called solvents,it is even claimed in their advertising not to produce chunks.

In any case the whole point of this post is to inform folks with these engines to check this little filter if they do use this product.

 

[MolaKule]

HAs anyone considered that the hard carbon is soot scavenged by the ARX?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
HAs anyone considered that the hard carbon is soot scavenged by the ARX?


It looks like carbon is it? Is it rock hard or hard enough to be crushed between your fingers? Either way anything that size and hard floating around in an engine waiting to get collected by the filter is not good. If it were dissolved better it would be safer IMO.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
HAs anyone considered that the hard carbon is soot scavenged by the ARX?


Either way anything that size and hard floating around in an engine waiting to get collected by the filter is not good. If it were dissolved better it would be safer IMO.


What you say sounds logical to me,yes this was hard stuff not sludge.God knows what damage would have been done if that stuff got up into the VVT mechanism,not sure how abrasive carbon is but i wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
HAs anyone considered that the hard carbon is soot scavenged by the ARX?

MolaKule, I don't follow, could you explain this soot scavenging? Is arx aggregating the soot?

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Trav
simply this.. If the product worked as advertised and actually liquefied the junk instead of breaking it off then this issue would never have happened. It is after all advertised as a gentle cleaner without the supposodely negative side effects of so called solvents, it is even claimed in their advertising not to produce chunks.


Auto-Rx® is a proven metal cleaner. It does not change the chemistry of the engine oil or its viscosity. It will not cause foaming and does not interfere with injectors or sensors. Auto-Rx® utilizes engine oil to move through and clean all engine areas that are normally reached by lubrication. It is safe to use and will not cause engine damage. It is carefully formulated to DISSOLVE carbon deposits and sludge so they can be removed by the oil filter or otherwise drained away with the next oil change. These claims are substantiated by many INDEPENDENT/THIRD-PARTY TESTS, and the results are available on this website for your review.

I can attest to auto-rx breaking stuff off in chunks, between 343,000 miles and 367,000 miles which is 24,000 miles of using auto-rx I went through 22 oil filters.

I have now been using MMO between 367,000 miles and now at 381,000 miles and I have been able to do full OCI's without my oil filters showing any signs of chunks since MMO actually liquifies contaniments.

It sure seems like auto-rx acts more like a solvent and MMO actually does what auto-rx claims to do in DISSOLVING DEPOSITS.

I have spoken on the phone with many well respected members on this board who will stay annonymous and they have all said that auto-rx does not work as advertised.

I even have one respected member who has given me permission to give out his phone number and e-mail address and he is willing to talk to any BITOG MEMBER about his reasoning on why auto-rx does not work as advertised.

I have also talked with quite a few people who have business ties with auto-rx and they feel the same way about the products limitations.

I wanted auto-rx to work, there was a time when I believed in the product, but a former auto-rx user turned me onto a product that is not only cheaper but has also worked beyond my expectations. We have 35 LOCKED auto-rx threads here in the Oil Additive Section and that should tell us that many members are not happy with the product.