Energy conserving oils and wet clutches.

[Autografe]

I do not intend to start a war so play nice please. Keep in mind I am seeking intel as I am fairly new to the forum.

I have read in a motorcycle forum that the major reason not to use automotive oil in wet clutch motorcycles is that the friction modifiers in "energy conserving" oils interferes with clutch function. However none of the oils I can find in 15W-50 or 20W-50 have the have the energy conserving seal. Does this mean they don't have the friction modifiers in question? What do you all think of using 15W-50 Mobil 1 or a comparable oil in a bike with a wet clutch? It is certainly much cheaper than Mobil V-twin 20W-50 and as I tend to change my oil at 2500 miles or 3 months it is less expensive with the frequent changes.

 

[scurvy]

Any oils without the EC seal should be perfectly safe for your wet clutch motorcycle. I've heard lots of happy noises about Rotella T 15w40 as well as the synthetic T6 5w40 in motorcycles, neither of which have EC seals.

 

[XS650]

Look for an oil that meets the Allison C4 spec. That is a spec that requires testing in wet clutches. It's for industrial and commercial vehicles but crosses over to real world MC requirements too. Many HDEOs meet C4. Read the can and check their spec sheets online, it isn't always listed on the container.

Lack of an energy conserving seal doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have EC additives.

 

[bepperb]

An oil is more or less going to need to be 30 weight or thinner to meet the energy conserving spec... so no 40 or 50 weights are going to have it no matter what.

 

[dwendt44]

Both the Rotella oils mentioned above are, in fact, JASO approved for wet clutch use.
The Rotella 10W-30 may be OK too for newer bikes that call for a
30 weight oil.
IF it specifies the Allison C4 spec.it should be good to go.
15W-50 Mobil 1 has been used in many cycles for years with good results, Gold Wings in particular.

 

[Autografe]

I am currently using 15W-40 Rotella. I was interested in moving to a synthetic and The heaviest HDEO synthetic I can find is 5W-40. The 15W-50 is what Triumph specs in the UK where Mobil has a 15W-50 motorcycle oil available. The only comparable in the states is wildly expensive. That is my interest in the 15W-50 Mobil 1. Thanks for your input.

 

[Velo_Fello]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
Rotella T 15w40 as well as the synthetic T6 5w40.



These work perfectly well with wet clutches in my experience. No problems at all.

Sunruh (the Myth Buster) prefers the 15W40, as he has found it keeps its viscosity better in sumps shared with gearboxes.

I have found that it gives slightly smoother gearchanges in my XT 225.

 

[qrtsteve]

One area I don't see discussed much in reference to using what I will refer to as general auto oil versus a motorcycle specific oil is the effects of transmission "shear down". It is my understanding that the motorcycle additive packages have more “extreme pressure” additives to help reduce shear down when used in engines where the oil is used by both the engine and transmission.

 

[RWEST]

Originally Posted By: qrtsteve
One area I don't see discussed much in reference to using what I will refer to as general auto oil versus a motorcycle specific oil is the effects of transmission "shear down". It is my understanding that the motorcycle additive packages have more “extreme pressure” additives to help reduce shear down when used in engines where the oil is used by both the engine and transmission.

Real world testing has proven that ANY oil will shear, some more than others, whether MC specific or not. Unfortunately..

 

[GoldwingGuy]

What I want to know and I have yet to get an exact answer is what makes an oil energy conserving. All of the oil analysis that I have read has never had a specific additive that would make an oil EC. Rotella T5 is 10W-30 and not EC (the Goldwing looks it). Maybe a team of tribologist could figure it out.

 

[BigCahuna]

Here's my take on it. The "thinner" read "lighter" weight oils have the ec symbol. That's in the 0-20, 5-30, 10-30 wt ranges. They supposedly flow easier at extreme temps , and don't exert any additional drag on motor parts. So that being the reason they get the Ec symbol,15-50, 20-50, or 50, and 60wt oils are heavier and aren't going to give the same mileage and flow results at lower temps. There have been several oils tested recently in the 20-50 wt range, that have very good uoa's. Valvoline racing oil I believe is VR1,Havoline 20-50 is another good choice should handle the chores. they're both a mineral oils so if your doing 2500 oci's, spending more on synthetic oil won't get you anything.

 

[dwendt44]

EC oils are thin to start with, that and anti-friction additives are the secret. What exactly those A.F. adds are are a priority secret I'm sure.
I did find these:

http://www.rtvanderbilt.com/petro_5.htm

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4295983.html

 

[Ken2]

Originally Posted By: GoldwingGuy
What I want to know and I have yet to get an exact answer is what makes an oil energy conserving.

Look at the Sequence VI-B test results. Running in a test engine the oil must achieve the listed fuel savings...2.3% & 2.0% for 0W-20 & 5W-20, etc. This is achieved using an oil with the minimum high temperature/high shear viscosity, a mixture of friction reducing additives, etc.


As stated above, only 0W-20 to 10W-30 oils with the ILSAC GF-4 rating will carry the Energy Conserving logo.

Don't all oils these day have friction modifiers? Rotella has moly as does just about all other oils. ConocoPhillips76Kendall has their Liquid Titanium to give the same effect as moly at lower cost. We know that Schaeffer oils have a big slug of moly plus their proprietary friction modifier "Penetro", and those oils are widely used in wet clutch motorcycles including mine.

 

[azsynthetic]

Not true. 0W40 and 5W40 are also capable of Energy Conserving.

http://eolcs.api.org/FindBrandByServiceCategory.asp?ServiceCategory=SM

 

[mechanicx]

I've seen that even factory brand motorcycle oils have moly for EP and are JASO rated. I don't think a little moly affects wet clutches. Friction modifiers are a different additive from moly.