5w20 Problems

[modularv8]

Anyone experience any problems using 5w20 vs 5w30?

I have '06 F150 5.4l 3v engine (45k miles). I have used 5w20 from the day I bought the truck new. In the past 3 oil changes, I have noticed the VCT phaser will begin to make a slight clacking sound on mild acceleration once I get past the 3k mile mark into the oci. It isn't anything horrible, but it is most noticeable when next to a wall (drive thru) and mild acceleration. I also notice it when revving up the engine to ~800 rpms. This occurs only when the oil is up to operating temperature and especially on very hot days.

From I have seen (UOA reports), 5w20 tends to shear down into the 7's cSt range. I guess this enough to cause the oil pressure to drop enough to cause the VCT phaser noise. BTW, I have used both Motorcraft blend and QS full synthetic 5w20 with the same result; although the QS was a huge improvement.

I will be going to 5w30 on the next oil change. Anyone experience any problems like this or others with 5w20?

 

[gd9704]

My 07 Merc Grand Marquis's 4.6 has been fed Motocraft's syn blend 5w20 for the last 40,000 with no issues. Blackstone's analysis says everything's cool.....

 

[rclint]

This could be a mechanical problem instead of a lubrication problem, it also could be due to mileage, and wearing in of the parts, or as previous a mechanical/wear problem.

I doubt it being due to a 5w-20 as from read, and looking through the UOA section pretty much all 5w-30 oils will shear down to 5w-20 status within a very short time (unless your purchasing a specialty boutique oil) so that would be another strike against the 5w-20 causing your problem.

As for my past experience using 5w-20 I have never once noticed a difference in 5w-20 verses 5w30 running in several different engines however I admit most of these engines are Honda engines.. Your noise issue may just be a normal issue with mechanical design..I'm looking forward to looking at opinions/ideas from others more knowledgeable on this subject as well.

 

[Gary Allan]

I would think that the question would be "has anyone experienced this with their modular". I doubt that 5w-20 has anything to do with it.

 

[modularv8]

I have read in many technical articles about the VCT phaser design being sensitive to low oil pressure. It is a problem Ford is aware of and has published an OASIS report regarding the noise. The solution according to Ford is 10w40. This is also not unique to Ford and has occurred with other auto manufacturers that use motor oil as a hydraulic oil in VVT/VCT systems.

What I was getting at with this post is that 5w20 works great when new, but it seems to have problems once it shears down. My wife's '07 Honda Odyssey is noisier (valvetrain) after 4k miles into the oci. These aren't really a mechanical problem and you have to be tuned to your engine to notice these things. But there is a difference once the oil gets used.

Another observation with 5w20, is that the oil will fume (give off white vapors) when the oil cap is removed after the engine reaches operating temperature. This doesn't happen with 5w30.

BTW, I use only QS synthetic oil now.

 

[OVERKILL]

Try some M1 0w40. You've got nothing to lose. If it fixes it, then awesome.

 

[mechanicx]

I think you should give 5W30 or 10W30 or maybe even a 30 grade HM for the increased viscosity a try especially in Summer. If Ford says 10W40 can work and is a fix, then I don't see why you couldn't run a heavier grade of oil in Texas year around.

 

[ottotheclown]

So why not try the 5-30 and then you will know. I know Texas gets hot but I also know like in the panhandle, from experence, it can get real cold. I would be careful going too heavy without the experence of one up grade wise. IMHO

Originally Posted By: modularv8
I have read in many technical articles about the VCT phaser design being sensitive to low oil pressure. It is a problem Ford is aware of and has published an OASIS report regarding the noise. The solution according to Ford is 10w40. This is also not unique to Ford and has occurred with other auto manufacturers that use motor oil as a hydraulic oil in VVT/VCT systems.

What I was getting at with this post is that 5w20 works great when new, but it seems to have problems once it shears down. My wife's '07 Honda Odyssey is noisier (valvetrain) after 4k miles into the oci. These aren't really a mechanical problem and you have to be tuned to your engine to notice these things. But there is a difference once the oil gets used.

Another observation with 5w20, is that the oil will fume (give off white vapors) when the oil cap is removed after the engine reaches operating temperature. This doesn't happen with 5w30.

BTW, I use only QS synthetic oil now.

 

[Y_K]

Ok, let me find a chair to hide under. Ask any cab driver and they will laugh if you preach 5w20 virtues. Valve seal job before 200k miles - one in three engines. CAFEless Shell Au site recommends xw30 for regular and 5w40 for premium protection. 10w30 is the oil for this engine. To make it work in colder winters they designated 5w30 for the modular 8. Then CAFE stepped in and the vis was skewed further down to 5w20 which is a fine oil for 3k ODIs and vehicles with smaller mass than yours. I have seen more than a hundred cabs pushing 600k easily on a bulk 10w30 conventional mobile.

 

[rclint]

yk but the problem here is 5w-30 shears down to a 5w-20 in short time according to many UOA's, yet the 5w-20 seem to stay in grade... so that would shoot this hypothesis in the foot... I had no idea ford put out a technical bulletin on this to go from a 5w-20 grade to a 10w-40 grade. If so then I would definitely run what ford advises to run !!

 

[jorton]

Phaser problems?

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: rclint
yk but the problem here is 5w-30 shears down to a 5w-20 in short time according to many UOA's, yet the 5w-20 seem to stay in grade...
I am not arguing, but.. what Ford advises is largely affected by many other factors outside of physics and chemistry - too many variables to be sure of anything. I just go by real world experience. Ford and Ford engineer is not always the same. Take J-Mod for example. And 5w20 shears down to 7cSt which shows in some vehicles after 2-3k miles and does not in others. Shell Australia advises something different. Everybody advises nowadays. Been discussed many times. No way I would suggest that 5w20 in a modular 8/2 is a catastrophe. In fact I run it in one of my new town cars for warranty purposes. I just change it every 3k - the car is too heavy for this engine and oil combo.

 

[crazyoildude]

i have heard a slight chatter on two 4.6 for motors with low mileage and it was not the filter i switched to pennzoil ultra 5w20 and the noise went away

 

[Falcon_LS]

I've never run 5W-20 in mine, even though that's what its spec'd for, and all the previous owner ran was Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 10W-30 since the first oil change at 1,500 km. Recently switched to Liqui-Moly Synthoil Energy 0W-40 and planning to run PP 5W-30 at the next change. Will run Motorcraft 5W-20 Full Synthetic after that, and based on a UOA of 15,000 km each, pick the best out of the 3.

 

[crazyoildude]

as an engine rebuilder and owner of the shop for over 20 years and someone who just recently tried the 5w30 in a couple of modulars i now am convinced 5w20 is the way to go,i knew this for a long time but i hired a ford tech to do some part time rebuilds and he insisted 5w30 was better i tried it and switched back to 5w20

 

[Y_K]

also Depends which 5w20 we are talking about. MC blend is not up to task for my cars, but may be up to task for your engines.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: modularv8
I have read in many technical articles about the VCT phaser design being sensitive to low oil pressure. It is a problem Ford is aware of and has published an OASIS report regarding the noise. The solution according to Ford is 10w40.
You have a link, or can you post the relevant part? I don't doubt you, but I'd like to read more about this.

 

[Mokanic]

It's a cam phaser design and manufactering problem they are trying to mask with heavier oil. Nothing wrong at all with 20wt oils.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
It's a cam phaser design and manufactering problem they are trying to mask with heavier oil. Nothing wrong at all with 20wt oils.


That's what I was told. Thicker oil buffers sounds better, it has nothing to do with protection. All they are doing is trying to mask sound until they can design a part that is quiet with the spec'd oil.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I have a 2006 F-150 at work, with the 5.4L, and the engine has never been a quiet engine. It's just a loud truck period. But we never have any say on oil changes...it's a government truck, and we just take it in once a year whenever we get the PM order for it.

I had the oil changed in it about a month ago, and noticed that the place we took it to this time used Mobil 5W-30. I didn't say anything, but I will stand up and say that the engine is much quieter on the 5W-30 than it was on the 5W-20 that was always used before. We'll see how long it lasts. This oil will be in the truck for another 11 months, and probably 4-8k miles, depending on a lot of things. Most of the truck's use is on post and probably 50% off road.