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Planning very special oil change #195335
06/14/06 12:45 PM
06/14/06 12:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 529
Manitoba, Canada
rob-the-oil-nut Offline OP
rob-the-oil-nut  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 529
Manitoba, Canada
Hi again, everyone! Wow it's been a LONG time.
OK I have a dilemna about my oil change. It's once a year, I want it to go just right. My mechanic has talked me into the BG flush with the air blow-out (he refutes the notion that blowing it out with air just makes up for not doing the change with the engine at full temp, since the additive must be put in and the engine ran for 15 mins. So it's hot. He then pulled the drain plug and went for lunch before doing the blowing out and got a substantial amount of extra oil, I think close to a litre. So I am going for it)
Won't that flush additive skew the results? Assuming it would, I want the samples without it. I'd also like to test what gets blown out, but again, without that BG flushing additive. I have done the Auto-RX thing and my engine is clean but I want to try this BG stuff for my own curiosity.
I think there are 2 likely ways this will go:
1) Drain the oil in there now, taking midstream samples. Drained oil goes to a 10X-rinsed milk jug (no water in it) in order to be re-used for about 15 mins, under 15 mins from the drain time. Blow out the oil and also get a sample of that, the rest going to the plastic milk jug. After the samples are taken, return used oil to crankcase, add the BG flush agent / solvent, idle as per BG's instructions, drain with the option of taking samples midstream and/or during the blowing out.
2) As above but do not re-use oil, that is dumb. Use fresh oil. If so, I suppose the oil in there so short a time should be fully synthetic, since it makes no sense to drain Redline, put in just any plain 'dead dino' and then replace with GC. So do I use 5 bottles Redline or GC for 15 mins? THAT seems a waste, I mean I do the annual thing in part for the environment. Plus it's $30-$40 in oil, used under a day...or should I have it in along with Auto-RX for a few months? Maybe put in fresh Redline and then GC in December?
I feel indecisive, and vacillant / vacillatory, so I am asking my BITOG community for inputs.
The oil change has me dropping off instructions after hours Monday, to be done first thing Tuesday (June 20 '06) morning, so speed would be appreciated.
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!
Rob-the-oil-nut

Re: Planning very special oil change #195336
06/14/06 03:22 PM
06/14/06 03:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,724
Herndon, Virginia
toocrazy2yoo Offline
toocrazy2yoo  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,724
Herndon, Virginia
[Eek!] [Freak] [freaknout]

Hmmm..Maybe you should just change the oil?

Redline? You kidding us? If I was Redlining, I'd do that, enjoy it, and leave the solvents to the paint brushes.

On June 20th, 06, I think maybe you should put your clubs in the car, and make a tee-time. [Cheers!]

Re: Planning very special oil change #195337
06/14/06 03:37 PM
06/14/06 03:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 166
western pa
eddyzima Offline
eddyzima  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 166
western pa
Rob, as toocrazy stated. thats to crazy. wow.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195338
06/14/06 04:48 PM
06/14/06 04:48 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 401
Largo, FL
Mike242GT Offline
Mike242GT  Offline

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 401
Largo, FL
How about investing in one of those dipstick sampling devices? Then you can pull your sample anytime you like.

The air blow out is one of those ideas that sounds good, but might not be (what pressures are involved/how well filtered is the air being blow in?) I think I'd pass on that.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195339
06/14/06 05:05 PM
06/14/06 05:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,724
Herndon, Virginia
toocrazy2yoo Offline
toocrazy2yoo  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,724
Herndon, Virginia
Tee-Time..

Yep! That's what I'd do! [Cheers!]

Re: Planning very special oil change #195340
06/14/06 05:42 PM
06/14/06 05:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 140
Haddonfield, NJ
SJUMBA Offline
SJUMBA  Offline

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 140
Haddonfield, NJ
Rob, you need to think about getting a life.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195341
06/14/06 07:33 PM
06/14/06 07:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,132
High Desert, California
OriginHacker21 Offline
OriginHacker21  Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,132
High Desert, California
Wowie. I thought I enjoyed changing oil too much [Big Grin] . Glad to see someone else enjoying it too!!! My oil change consists of: grabbing a diet pepsi or two - take out the plug - eat dinner while it drains - take out the oil filter - if I'm feeling good dump half a fresh quart to "flush" out some old oil - put everything back in (filter, drain plug) - put new oil in allowing a minute or two for each quart to drain fully.

To answer your questions: Doing an additive flush, in my opinion, would skew a UOA result. I am paranoid about anything getting into my engine so, "blowing" air into the engine better be filtered REALLY WELL. Personally, I'd feel better about letting it drain for an hour - then dumping half a quart of fresh oil to "flush" things out.

Seriously though --> There is no medicine like a short OCI with a good synthetic for the individual who really cares for his car. [Big Grin]

Re: Planning very special oil change #195342
06/14/06 08:57 PM
06/14/06 08:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,856
Gilbertsville, PA
Dominic Offline
Dominic  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,856
Gilbertsville, PA
I would drain the oil, and fill with clean oil, and do a UOA if you feel golden. Additives/Flushes are simply NOT needed.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195343
06/15/06 09:00 AM
06/15/06 09:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 550
Wisconsin
BigAl Offline
BigAl  Offline

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 550
Wisconsin
If you change your oil before the additives are depleted there will never be any need to flush.

I would suggest getting some help for your ritual behavior. I'm a little concerned.

By the way, one reason that Group IV and V synthetic oils are so expensive is that they take so much energy to synthesize them. It also takes a LOT of petroleum or natural gas to make the ethylene used as a feedstock for Group IV PAO. It does last longer in the crankcase, but there is a lot more oil used to make it than is used for conventional oils. You probably aren't doing much for the planet by using it.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195344
06/15/06 09:18 AM
06/15/06 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,132
High Desert, California
OriginHacker21 Offline
OriginHacker21  Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,132
High Desert, California
So using a Group III is more "environmentally friendly" than a Group 4 or 5? [Razz]

Re: Planning very special oil change #195345
06/15/06 09:30 AM
06/15/06 09:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 982
Earth
Jeepster_nut Offline
Jeepster_nut  Offline

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 982
Earth
live your life man... [Big Grin]

Re: Planning very special oil change #195346
06/14/06 10:50 PM
06/14/06 10:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,904
Bay Area, CA
Winston Offline
Winston  Offline

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,904
Bay Area, CA
Come on guys. This is a site for oil nuts. His plan sounds interesting. However, I don't understand why he is sampling the "blow out" oil. Why would it be different than the other oil?

Also, I do not understand step 2. Do you intend to leave the fresh oil in for only a short time?

Overall, I think this is a great experiment to se if the BG engine flush does anything.

If you want to go all out, have Terry read the results of the before and after samples. If you plan on doing that, he might give you some insight on your sampling methods.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195347
06/15/06 12:13 AM
06/15/06 12:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,608
Saskatchewan, Canada
pitzel Offline
pitzel  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,608
Saskatchewan, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by OriginHacker21:
So using a Group III is more "environmentally friendly" than a Group 4 or 5? [Razz]

If you run identical OCI's, and engine performance degradation isn't an issue, absolutely.

If you are running a group IV or V oil, there is no excuse to not run, at the very least, the manufacturer recommended OCI. As UOA data on this site has shown, even the 15k miles recommended by Mobil, or the 25k that Amsoil recommends is rather conservative for many vehicles.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195348
06/15/06 12:31 AM
06/15/06 12:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,300
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Papa Bear Offline
Papa Bear  Offline

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,300
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
What kind of car...what kind of miles....what kind of driving ??
Don't give in to the impulse !! Walk (drive) away !!
If you decide to do it, please send me your 15 min GC.

P.B.

Re: Planning very special oil change #195349
06/15/06 03:28 PM
06/15/06 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 529
Manitoba, Canada
rob-the-oil-nut Offline OP
rob-the-oil-nut  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 529
Manitoba, Canada
Sorry, I don't play golf. Tried it but have no interest in taking it up.
Did anyone think I redline the engine? No, I use Redline brand oil. My fill on Tuesday might be Redline, might be GC, I'm not too sure just yet. If you want to help me decide; great. If you want to poke fun at my oil nuttyness, no biggie: That's your prerogative, and certainly within the scope of BITOG. I take it in stride and like water off a duck's back. I'm dedicated to not getting upset about a bit of teasing. I already know I'm a bit nuts [Razz] You can like it / accept it / work with me, or struggle to change something you can't (me / my oil fetish). [Roll Eyes]
I change oil once a year. I want it to have it done just right. I go through this phase just a few weeks out of the year, but I DO get enthusiastic about other things too! Oil is not my only, or #1 interest or I'd be on BITOG more often! I could expand on my list of hobbies & interests, but rather than get side-tracked, I'll just remind that it's time for an oil change and I want to do things just so.
I have decided to try the BG cleaner and the air purge. Like I said, the mechanic-friend didn't believe it worked either. He drained the oil, engine fully hot, left the drain plug out, went for lunch, and couldn't believe it when another near-litre / quart came out as a result of the air flush, after the hot drain. He also knows what it looks like when most cars come in for an oil change, and when one has come in every 7000 KM and now comes in at 6000 and with the BG purge, more guck comes out. So I have decided to try it.
I am not too concerned about particles in the air, I think if they get stuck in the engine they will get moved out when the new oil gets put in, and pushed through the by-pass when the fresh oil is pumped, before the car is started. That is the BG process, oil is pushed through until spin-on AND by-pass filters, both of which will be new, have oil flowing in and through them, before the engine is started.
I have a dipstick-tube sampling device, I and others have tried and failed to get it to work, there seems to be too great a bend in the dipstick tube. In fact putting in the dipstick in can be a bit tricky, too.
I am confident that the BG additive / solvent will skew UOA results and so I want samples taken before it is added. Winston: Thankyou! I recall a golden rule of sampling is, never sample from the last litre or quart. Like some fellow BITOG people, I figure the oil goes through the engine, and the by-pass filter, and why should the last bit be significantly different? I believe the answer to that is that the bottom of the pan is, (or may be) dirty or have sediment. (I think of a cup of coffee. Why would the first sip be different from the last sip? It shouldn't be, but maybe the filter broke in brewing and there are grounds on the bottom. On my oil pan, I believe some gunk at the bottom of the pan is normal; but that doesn't change the fact that I will go to good lengths to reduce it.)
IF there is edidence of a lot of guck in the pan, after all my past efforts, I want to know about it! I would drop the pan IF I had 'probable cause,' and what I have planned will give me either 'probable cause' / 'reason to believe' that the pan has either enough gunk to warrant reduced OCI or even dropping the pan, OR it is clean enough that I know I'm running the right course.
BigAl said "If you change your oil before the additives are depleted there will never be any need to flush." and at first I thought that was obvious (and correct) but then I got to thinking: I am certain that the oil has a Ph & TBN above one or two, know what I mean? And it has detergency / ability to carry contaminants to one filter or the other; that it is not an over-aged oil, the OCI is not too long, and there is life left in the oil. I believe, for reasons one may call logical (based on the mechanic's experience and the like) or otherwise, that the additive will remove more junk, and that the air flushing will remove dirt & contaminants. If I believed the oil to be over-used, or if the numbers come back that way, I'll deal with it. If I had the money AND reasonable grounds to think it wasn't a WASTE of money, I'd change the oil to Redline or GC, (or plain 'dead dino') and change it again in a few thousand miles. BUT I did that already, 50,000 KM ago. And I've done an Auto-RX cleaning, and am willing to do it again, IF the UOA gives me reason to. And BTW I WILL be getting Terry Dyson to do an interpretation on the results.
True, there is nothing like a short OCI with an A+ oil to make really sure, but my thinking at this time is that is a bit overboard in terms of wasting oil or money. Plus, if I did this twice a year, golly I'd have golf clubs and bags and whatever else, arriving by special delivery at Christmas time! [Big Grin]
I will however be wasting money (in the eyes of some, and that includes myself, at least to some extent) in testing the last bit that is blown out, relative to the mid-stream sample, relative to a sample with the additive. That's a lot of $ for a lot of arguably needless tests. The reason is so that people, who first looked at this site knowing little or nothing about oils, will know more about oils, UOA's and the how's, the why's, and the what-if's. I do this for the BITOG community and my motives are altruistic, giving, and educational, even if I get told now and again by long-time friends (and those that have just seen a 5 am posting or two of mine [Frown] ) that I should expand my horizons, hobby-wise.
I happily co-exist in this world with those people who would rather take good real estate and arguably waste it turning it into a lawn-mecca where you can bash a ball around until you sink it into a cup [Confused]
This is BITOG, it is here for several reasons and I have my own interpretation of these reasons. And I can spend my $ answering questions we have in common, and helping the newbie, the veteran, and those in between.
Can you really say there is no education or information to be gained by the testing / experiments I have planned? [No no]
Thanks for your help
Rob

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