Comparing Grease Characteristics

[WagonBoss]

Is there a real world difference between NLGI 2 lithium complex greases?

I don't have a lot of items to grease. No pins, no buckets, no tie-rod ends. Just my little garden tractor, wood chipper and a few implements. A NLGI 2 lithium complex grease does me just fine and I'm currently using Valvoline Palladium with 3% moly.

Looking at dropping point, Timken OK load, water washout, and leakage on the product descriptions. Will I ever know the difference between say, a Timken OK load of 65 in one product and 70 in another or a drop point of 500 vs 480? Or are these greases kind of like 5w-30 oil in that they are all good and pick one on price/availability?

Are better greases really in the base oil and thickener that is used?

 

[daman]

Those minor differences in numbers will yield little difference in wear,anything over 65 is good.

good to see you using a Moly fortified grease but IMO i would witch to a aluminum or calcium sulfonate thickener,much better wash out pound out characteristics vs lithium,lithium will actually mix with water,and also the aluminum or calcium sulfonate thickener is nice and tacky, sticky grease stays where it's put if that all matters to you.

all i use is Schaeffer's #238

 

[Rob_Roy]

Originally Posted By: WagonBoss
Looking at dropping point, Timken OK load, water washout, and leakage on the product descriptions. Will I ever know the difference between say, a Timken OK load of 65 in one product and 70 in another or a drop point of 500 vs 480?


If would be difficult to notice a change in grease performance in your application. Water washout would probably be one of the most significant if you are using it on mower deck bearings.

I no longer use a lithium based grease in anything that is exposed to water. As mentioned above, the lithium based thickener simply does not "stay put" when exposed to water. An aluminum complex, calcium sulfonate, or Calcium 12-Hydroxysterate based grease will normally outperform a lithium based grease in a "wet" application.

My grease of choice is 880 Crown & Chassis from Texas Refinery Corporation. It has a Calcium 12-Hydroxysterate thickener, 100 lb Timken load, 1.3% water washout, and it is very stable (no oil separation).

 

[WagonBoss]

Thanks. In my younger days I spent a lot of time in some miserable conditions. Age has made me a sissy I guess. I don't cut grass in the rain or when it is wet. Water wash out is not really a concern for me. But, I can certainly understand the necessity of having a grease perform in those conditions.

I suppose if I ever run across one of the aluminum or calcium based thickened grease I may try a tube. I'll bet if I walked into a parts store in my area and asked for it, it would be like I had asked for 10w-30 HDEO. Clerk would say, "What are you going to use that on?"

So it really is about the thickener compound more than specific specs??

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: WagonBoss
So it really is about the thickener compound more than specific specs??

No it's both, in this case the thickener AND spec is important in a grease at least in my world.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
My grease of choice is 880 Crown & Chassis from Texas Refinery Corporation.

I've used this grease before but hard to find locally where do you get yours?

 

[Rob_Roy]

They ship it direct.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
They ship it direct.


No place OTC rob?

have a link and price by chance?

 

[Rob_Roy]

Originally Posted By: daman

No place OTC rob?


Maybe, you would have to call the main office and see if anyone has it available in your area.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
Originally Posted By: daman

No place OTC rob?


Maybe, you would have to call the main office and see if anyone has it available in your area.

k

 

[WagonBoss]

So let’s compare 2 greases. Valvoline Palladium and Schaeffer #238. Call them brand x and y. I’m not trying to get to a brand discussion, but rather learn if the specs can tell me anything about in-field performance.

NLGI Grade 2
Dropping point: 540 vs 500
OK Load: 60 vs 65
Water Washout: 4% vs 5.5%
Base Oil Viscosity: 295@40C/20.5@100C vs 226@40C/18.8@100C
Flash Point: 450F vs 518F
Thickener: Lithium Complex vs Aluminum Complex

As a laymen, these two greases look comparative. Brand x appears that it would catch on fire before the oil separates. Brand x would not take the load pounding that brand y would (maybe difference between 3% and 5% moly). Brand x should not wash out as much as Brand y, but aluminum complex is suppose to be a better thickener for this. Brand x slightly better in hotter weather than brand y because a slightly thicker base oil; brand y better in cooler weather and at initial (cold) startup.

I’d be happy using either one and would buy based on price & availability. But, what am I missing?

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: WagonBoss
So let’s compare 2 greases. Valvoline Palladium and Schaeffer #238. Call them brand x and y. I’m not trying to get to a brand discussion, but rather learn if the specs can tell me anything about in-field performance.

NLGI Grade 2
Dropping point: 540 vs 500
OK Load: 60 vs 65
Water Washout: 4% vs 5.5%
Base Oil Viscosity: 295@40C/20.5@100C vs 226@40C/18.8@100C
Flash Point: 450F vs 518F
Thickener: Lithium Complex vs Aluminum Complex

As a laymen, these two greases look comparative. Brand x appears that it would catch on fire before the oil separates. Brand x would not take the load pounding that brand y would (maybe difference between 3% and 5% moly). Brand x should not wash out as much as Brand y, but aluminum complex is suppose to be a better thickener for this. Brand x slightly better in hotter weather than brand y because a slightly thicker base oil; brand y better in cooler weather and at initial (cold) startup.

I’d be happy using either one and would buy based on price & availability. But, what am I missing?

Well what your missing thats important to me is the thickener,,a grease cant work if it's not there,and a lithium will wash out even mix with water,a aluminum complex will not.

 

[doitmyself]

So, how does a lay person compare grease quality when viewing the specifications?

Damon, you are saying that aluminum complex has less water washout, but the above specs. (4% vs. 5.5%) say different. If I remember correct, Mystic J6 lithium grease has a washout less than 3%.

So, what do these numbers mean?

And, regarding EP/OK Load specs.....Timken suggests that at some point, too much EP additives are bad for some bearings. Is this the case for automotive wheel bearings? Kestas????

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
So, how does a lay person compare grease quality when viewing the specifications?

Damon, you are saying that aluminum complex has less water washout, but the above specs. (4% vs. 5.5%) say different. If I remember correct, Mystic J6 lithium grease has a washout less than 3%.

So, what do these numbers mean?

And, regarding EP/OK Load specs.....Timken suggests that at some point, too much EP additives are bad for some bearings. Is this the case for automotive wheel bearings? Kestas????

When you use the amount of grease i do numbers don't mean squat,real world comes into play with me,them numbers are so close they mean little,i don't care what it says a AC will out perform a Lith any day,it's sticky tacky stays where it's put.


look for Timken load and water wash out.

rub some AC and water in your hand then do the same with Lith.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Water wash-out is one specific test. It goes something like this: You take a bearing packed with a certain grease and weigh it. It is installed on a machine that turns the bearing at a certain speed, and it is sprayed with a stream of water ~100F for an hour. Then temperature of the water is increased to ~175F and the test is repeated. Once that is finished, the bearing is heated to remove any residual moisture, then weighed. The difference between the two weights is the amount of grease "washed-out" in the test.

This test is very useful to see how different greases behave in this application. On the other hand, it is not representative of say...an excavator bucket digging sand below the water line. I'm not saying water-washout doesn't mean anything, just that you should take it for what it is.

People tend to believe what they see over what they read. Here is a non-ASTM test for you: If you want to compare the water handling ability of different greases just smear a little on a car window, spray it with water, smear it around with your finger to mix the water with the grease, and then try to wipe it off. Some greases wipe off with two paper towels, others take half a roll and two people.

 

[Johnny]

Rob,

I sure ticked off my wife doing that grease demo on her car windows. And you know what grease I did that with. Had to clean it off with solvent when we got home.

 

[bigmike]

I'm just curious as to how much water you guys think is getting mixed with the grease? Washing your hand with some grease in it doesn't seem to be a comparative test to what my vehicle goes through. I grease every zerk fitting usually every other OCI, so roughly every 6 - 8 months. Am I missing something? Will AC let me go longer between applications?

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
I'm just curious as to how much water you guys think is getting mixed with the grease? Washing your hand with some grease in it doesn't seem to be a comparative test to what my vehicle goes through. I grease every zerk fitting usually every other OCI, so roughly every 6 - 8 months. Am I missing something? Will AC let me go longer between applications?


What ever the application is the point is it proves a point on how a grease holds up to water. Take for what it's worth.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Will AC let me go longer between applications?


IF your circumstances don't involve water washout, then I don't think we have any data that shows the AC will last longer than lithium complex.

On construction equipment such as a backhoe, loader, etc. that is exposed to water washout, I imagine the grease will remain intact longer. However, on "open" points like pins on a backhoe, I would think that the grease still gets squeezed out. And, if water can get into the joints, then the dirt and grime associated in excavation work is also getting into the joints. So, I think it would be prudent to still grease those points on a regular basis to replace the stuff that is squeezed out and to purge the dirt/grease slurry out.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Will AC let me go longer between applications?


IF your circumstances don't involve water washout, then I don't think we have any data that shows the AC will last longer than lithium complex.

Well hold on here,,my data(everyday uses of many type greases on heavy equip.)shows a lithium will "dry out" and start squeaking and have to be replenished more often then a AC thickener.