ATF change on 07 Civic - anyone a Honda tech??

[tpattgeek]

My questions/discussions/debates have gone nowhere with other forums, so just thought I'd run this by everyone for opinions or real world experience.

The 8th generation Civic has the Maintenance Minder system to remind you of all of all of the fool-proof maintenance you need to do and when. That's not a big deal for me with 5k mile OCI's, etc., but my only issue is how to change ATF and WHEN?

Several owners recommend doing a "flush", which for this vehicle means drain and refill the ATF, while on the lift, run through all gears, R, and N, then repeat 3-4 times. I hear from several people that this COULD result in intermittent issues when you get to higher mileage.

There is an item on the Maintenance Minder that will tell you to change ATF. I hear it comes up around 60k miles, and the only procedure for doing this in the service manual is "drain ATF and refill using the dipstick hole". You refill with ~2.5qts. which is around 40% total volume.

Both of my Honda dealers say to do a single drain and refill every 30k miles and that is for the "severe conditions" schedule which is what they go by for ATF. I'm not really sure why everyone seems to think you should "flush" your ATF, or drain and fill 3-4 times, when no one representing Honda has instructed us to do this?

I'm at 40k miles on my Civic and I'm planning to do a single drain and fill, then again every 30k miles. Just wanted to gather everyone's thoughts on this. Thank you.

 

[bepperb]

Your definition of flush and what the dealer is doing is the same thing over a different span of time.

I do it your way, just because it's easier to drain when I change the oil than do all three with a short drive between. But either way is fine.

You can buy the Z1 at the dealership, or if you search here you will find several alternatives.

Keep in mind, your tranny probably holds 8~12 quarts of ATF. You're not replacing all of it via your method, the fluid in the torque converter won't drain. The dealers do it their way because they can charge for it and it doesn't require any more work (actually less) than an oil change. To do 3x method it a lot more work. Honda doesn't recommend any service because they can't have a proprietary ATF and offer a warranty on the car under the Mag Moss act.
I wouldn't worry about causing a problem as long as you put back the amount you took out. IMO, you're ahead of the game by changing it.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Your definition of flush and what the dealer is doing is the same thing over a different span of time.


I don't do the 3-4 drain/fills method. I'm against it since there's no documentation stating that's the change procedure. I realize I'm probably ahead of the game at 40k, and since the manual states to "always" use Z1, I'll stick with that unless there's proof that M1 or another synthetic will work better..?? At least until I'm out of 5/60 warranty.

Oh BTW, it holds 6.2Q of ATF.

 

[pbm]

I would D&R the 2.5 quarts every 30K and add a Magnafine. Unless your A/T is trouble-prone (as many Hondas are) it should last as long as the rest of the car. Power flushing a Honda A/T seems to be a no-no.
I believe there are several superior alternatives to Z-1 with Redline D4 being optimal.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: pbm
I would D&R the 2.5 quarts every 30K and add a Magnafine.


The drain plug is magnetic... if that's the main benefit of the magnefine. Never heard of them till now, and didn't plan on replacing the filter anytime soon. Is that recommended on this vehicle?

 

[nfs480]

I own four Honda's and just drain and fill every 30k, never had a transmission problem on any of them. The most problem-prone honda transmissions were used on the 1999-2003 Odysseys.

EDIT: This vehicle also does not have a serviceable transmission filter, the filter is a screen within the transmission that is not accessible without removal and disassembly of the transmission.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: nfs480
I own four Honda's and just drain and fill every 30k, never had a transmission problem on any of them. The most problem-prone honda transmissions were used on the 1999-2003 Odysseys.


And some older Acura's if you want to include those, but thanks a lot for the info.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: nfs480
This vehicle also does not have a serviceable transmission filter, the filter is a screen within the transmission that is not accessible without removal and disassembly of the transmission.


Wow, that's really good to know. Some people say to change ATF and filter while you're down there and to drain and refill several times to make it as clean as possible, but evidently that's not always optimal. Honda maintenance FTW.

 

[barlowc]

Our 2007 Saturn VUE has a Honda powertrain. (i.e. 3.5-liter V6 and 5-speed automatic tranny) Last weekend I did a drain/refill on Saturday, drove the car approximately 30 miles that night, and then did another drain/refill on Sunday. I'm using the recommended ATF-Z1 fluid (obtained at the dealer) and have noticed a considerable improvement in shift quality. I'll do a third drain/refill this coming weekend and then plan on doing a single drain/refill every 10K miles thereafter. The procedure is easier than changing oil (once you learn it and have done it once) and the fluid isn't that expensive. (I got it for $4.50/quart from the Saturn dealer which was a very good deal. The two Honda dealers I called were charging around $8 and one Acura dealer was charging $11!) Each drain yielded a tad over 4.5 quarts.

Despite what tpattgeek said about the procedure not being document, I've seen documentation. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark it. The only confusion is whether it's a 3x or 4x drain/refill procedure. The documentation talked about draining/refilling and repeating 3 times. It wasn't clear whether the 3 included the first drain/refill or not.

 

[nfs480]

I own a Honda factory service manual for my cars and they all include 3x drain fills as flush.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: barlowc
Despite what tpattgeek said about the procedure not being document, I've seen documentation. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark it. The only confusion is whether it's a 3x or 4x drain/refill procedure. The documentation talked about draining/refilling and repeating 3 times. It wasn't clear whether the 3 included the first drain/refill or not.


Does your service manual say the procedure for changing ATF is to drain/fill several times? A Civic will probably be different, and it says to drain and fill once per 30k miles. Here's the link to the page from the Service Manual that gives the ATF Replacement procedure. It may be only viewable in Internet Explorer.

http://razvilka.no-ip.info/civic/Shop%20...3001KBAT00.HTML

This is the main page where you will be able to find out even more awesome things about this vehicle:

http://razvilka.no-ip.info/civic/Shop manual/Civic 4D 2006/HONDAESM.HTML

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: nfs480
I own a Honda factory service manual for my cars and they all include 3x drain fills as flush.


Does one include a 2006-present Civic?

 

[barlowc]

Does anyone know the procedure for a 2002 Civic EX? My mother-in-law has one with 70K miles and I was going to do it for her. The manual recommends ATF-Z1, so I'll use that, especially since I have a source to get it from for $4.50/quart.

1) Does it have a drain plug that takes a 3/8" socket?
2) Where is the fill plug/hole?
3) Approximately how much will come out when I drain it? (That'll allow me to figure out how many quarts to buy for a 3x drain/fill.)

 

[PandaBear]

My Honda / Acura factory service manual said to drain refill 3x if you put in the wrong ATF. I'd say that's enough if you want to do a "flush".

But for the same cost, why not just do a drain refill every 1/3 of the original interval? It will keep the average condition of the ATF over time better for the same cost.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
My Honda / Acura factory service manual said to drain refill 3x if you put in the wrong ATF. I'd say that's enough if you want to do a "flush".

But for the same cost, why not just do a drain refill every 1/3 of the original interval? It will keep the average condition of the ATF over time better for the same cost.


Yes, to get rid of the wrong or a temporary ATF, you would drain/fill 3x. Drain/fill 1x every 30k is what all dealers around me do, and they say that's the "severe schedule". If they could get away with doing it more often, I'm preeeeeetty sure they would.

 

[silverrat]

I don't understand this "procedure" stuff you guys are asking about.

It's a drain and fill service. Honda does not recommend "flushing". "Flush" means disconnecting lines and running it through a machine.

One drain and fill is the norm, if you do more than one cycle then it's that much better, that's called more than one drain and fill, not a flush.

Better yet, if you want to do it exactly "by the book" take it to the dealer and pay the $80 they would charge to do it.

I believe the drain plug needs to be opened with a 3/8" rachet that fits directly onto the drain plug.

 

[silverrat]

By the way, how could draining and filling your transmission multiple times as opposed to just once be in any way harmful? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[CharBaby]

The only thing I have ever done when changing the ATF in a Honda or any vehcile for that matter is a Drain and Fill. Regularly and using the proper ATF of course!

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
By the way, how could draining and filling your transmission multiple times as opposed to just once be in any way harmful? That doesn't make sense to me.

That's what Honda says, so that's what I, and others, and dealers, do.

Looks like Char Baby read and does the same.

 

[tpattgeek]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
Better yet, if you want to do it exactly "by the book" take it to the dealer and pay the $80 they would charge to do it.



Honda calls 3 drain/fills a "flush". I changed mine yesterday, once, and saved lots of money since my dealer would've done the same. There's a document out there that I'll try to post about the 3x drain/fill and how it's done only for "certain A/T repair procedures." I dunno, every car is different, just like you would literally flush an A/T on another car. I guess changing 1x every 30k or so makes it the most consistent over time. Again,

How do I post a jpeg, or the contents of one?