Honda GCV 160 surging on start up

Status
Not open for further replies.
The reason we "jury rig" these things is because the EPA would have all of these removed from the market if they could. These little one cylinder providers of mower/tiller/power washer/generator power are pretty good polluters when adjusted to run right. The manufacturers send them out of the factory so lean, they won't run well if there is so much as a pin tip-sized piece of debris between the carb's bowl and the spark plug. So, instead of cleaning out the carb twice a year, you can just adjust the mixture a little, even it it means having to defeat whatever guard is keeping it from turning. My little $9 tool to adjust 2 stroke weekwhackers is getting quite a work out this year already because of the EPA's unrealistic guidelines. Brand new, running whackers coming in for service...go figure. And, the worst part is, my conscience won't let me charge for the 45 seconds of work. I do it while they watch...dummy me! Oh, and Hondas on mowers aren't usually notorious for surging, the Honda 160 is.
 
I managed a large ope dealer for years, every scag tiger cub we ever had w/honda (24HP)surged like crazy until deck was turned on, i personlly called honda and that epa was just the exact explination I gave earlier. Walkbehinds w/Honda...same thing. Cub Cadet Big Countrys (similar to JD Gators) came out w/Hondas, Honda themselves came to our facility and swaped out the engines on first 12 units I sold...etc,etc. I got very upset over that! Ticked off customers.....and Hondas explaination...blah blah we design our engines to run at a "fixed" RPM, such as on pressure washers and generators things like that blah blah... personally i agree w debris on needle or maybe leaky a/f gasket. But if that mower runs fine when its under a load, i still say NOT a problem w engine.
 
Oh, you mean Honda engines on machines that don't continuously have the blade engaged. Yeah, they pretty much all surge somewhat regardless of the brand. Generators, tillers and snowblowers too. The good old EPA is going to make sure it gets harder every year until we convert lawn care items into wind power or bicep power.

The old Toros however run smooth as silk even when the blade is disengaged.

I really like the manual, handle-mounted choke cable MTD puts on some of their mowers with Chondas. Just pull it out a tad and they run like a charm...until they fall apart. I save those choke cables for other, future applications. I'm such a pack rat.

Thanks for the insight KCFX.
 
Last edited:
more of my understanding was that alot of their engines were to run at a set rpm, like a pressure washer/generator one would think less to "mess with the throttle". But most hondas ive been around in general surge without a load. That make sense?
 
Surging rpm (under NO load ) is not normal or desirable, and does mean the air:fuel ratio is lean, the application the engine is installed on is not the problem.

Some of us choose to correct the lean A:F ratio, if some wish to put up with the surging, that's their choice too.
 
General rule of thumb, surge with no load is usually some sort of air leak/gasket leak/idle jet clogged. True that the EPA has engines running on the lean side and any of the above will cause a surge with the least fault.

Lean under load, fuel delivery problem (clogged fuel filter, pinched line).
 
Originally Posted By: occity79
Surging rpm (under NO load ) is not normal or desirable, and does mean the air:fuel ratio is lean, the application the engine is installed on is not the problem.


Agreed. My HR215SXA (with the Honda GXV140 and the Roto-Stop blade clutch) does not surge at idle nor under load. If the engine is surging, it's not normal, at least in my experience. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I do also agree that modern engine tuning allows for less of a fault tolerance.
 
I actually took time to call Honda myself, i posted on here exactly what i was explained by them, and passed it on to you. do with it what you like
 
They surge when not under load. My brother used to tune his guitar for an hour or more before he would play it, then would tune it during for good measure. If you mess with your engine enough, you may be able to get it to run perfectly smooth whether under load or not, but who has time for that? As long as they steady up and run smoothly and efficiently while doing the job they were intended for (while under load).
 
Originally Posted By: yeehaw1960
They surge when not under load. My brother used to tune his guitar for an hour or more before he would play it, then would tune it during for good measure. If you mess with your engine enough, you may be able to get it to run perfectly smooth whether under load or not, but who has time for that? As long as they steady up and run smoothly and efficiently while doing the job they were intended for (while under load).


I agree 100%.

An engine that's hunting while not under load means nothing. It's just the governor trying to find the best speed to run the engine at. Super lean engines might not be providing the fuel the governor want's to keep the engine at a steady rpm. when unloaded. That's just the result of fuel conservation/emissions reductions efforts.

As mentioned by Yeehaw, enough fiddling around might settle the engine down but if it's running steady while under load, why would there be a concern?
 
that was EXACTLY my point the first and everytime I have responded to this!! ppl are seriously making a mountain out of a mole hill on this one! its a push mower and is working properly when its doing its job (mowing), and mowing is all a pushmower does! why care if surges when not mowing? furthermore, why have a pushmower running if your not mowing?
 
Last edited:
Mine doesn't surge at start up or any other time.
Is this something I have to look forward too or what?

I treat gas before fall storage and MMO once or twice during the mowing season.

Is it ALL Hondas or just some of them? Mine is a 2009 model.
 
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Mine doesn't surge at start up or any other time.
Is this something I have to look forward too or what?

I treat gas before fall storage and MMO once or twice during the mowing season.

Is it ALL Hondas or just some of them? Mine is a 2009 model.


The surging is usually the result of dirt particles lodging in the internal passages of your carb, usually the low speed jet (pilot jet), the screen filter in the fuel tank is the only fuel filter, so some dirt eventually gets through to the carb. Honda carb jets are really small so it doesn't take much to cause a blockage. I've also seen main jets that have vibrated loose enough to cut off the low speed feed circuit in the carb. This can happen to any carb'ed small engine of course, not just Hondas.

This is why some of us take to time to adjust the jetting while the carb is apart for cleaning, slighlty enlarging the jets reduces the blockages from tiny dirt particles, and gives smoother and cooler running. Don't let some on here blow smoke that you need to replace the carb or dare to go against the dealers word, this is a board for people to help each other.
 
"Don't let some on here blow smoke that you need to replace the carb or dare to go against the dealers word, this is a board for people to help each other."


Gasp! Stepping outside the box! How dare you?
 
I did install a fuel filter late last year.
So that should help.

Since most newer engines, Honda included, run wide open, do they even have a low speed/pilot jet?
 
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
I did install a fuel filter late last year.
So that should help.

Since most newer engines, Honda included, run wide open, do they even have a low speed/pilot jet?


They don't run wide open, the governor still controls the throttle plate and under light load it's mostly closed.
 
my honda mower surged every summer after dust would get in the fuel during regular mows. It was always hard to find the itty bitty piece of nothing that clogged the carb. Finally did a thorough cleaning, added an inline filter and never had problems after that. Efficient engine, very small passages in the carb. sipped fuel...

M
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top