General question here,a loader can use either hydraulic oil as it is a dedicated system, does not share any other sumps trans/drive gear,etc hydraulics only,no cold operating temps.
whats the better oil?
whats the better oil?
UTF vs AW ??
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MolaKule
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Quote:
loader can use either hydraulic oil as it is a dedicated system
What is the other choice? Either implies one of two choices.
Please clarify and maybe give make, model, year, special features etc.
Do you mean if given choices between UTF and AW hydraulic oil, which is the better?
If this fluid does not provide lubrication for a gearbox or wet clutches, then generally speaking, an AW Hydraulic fluid of the proper viscosity will suffice. The reason for mentioning UTTF in the Operators manual is that many companies are specifiying UTTF as a general replacement for AW hydraulic oil, since you only have to stock one fluid for a mix of machines.
loader can use either hydraulic oil as it is a dedicated system
What is the other choice? Either implies one of two choices.
Please clarify and maybe give make, model, year, special features etc.
Do you mean if given choices between UTF and AW hydraulic oil, which is the better?
If this fluid does not provide lubrication for a gearbox or wet clutches, then generally speaking, an AW Hydraulic fluid of the proper viscosity will suffice. The reason for mentioning UTTF in the Operators manual is that many companies are specifiying UTTF as a general replacement for AW hydraulic oil, since you only have to stock one fluid for a mix of machines.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Do you mean if given choices between UTF and AW hydraulic oil, which is the better?
Yes thats what im getting at
and yes NO lubrication for a gearbox or wet clutches it's a dedicated system to the hydraulics/loader.
is one better then the othere as in wear etc,etc.??
not concerned with multi oil's on hand
Do you mean if given choices between UTF and AW hydraulic oil, which is the better?
Yes thats what im getting at
and yes NO lubrication for a gearbox or wet clutches it's a dedicated system to the hydraulics/loader.
is one better then the othere as in wear etc,etc.??
not concerned with multi oil's on hand
MolaKule
Staff member
Thanks for the clarification.
I'll give you some data (more like random thoughts
) and then make my recommendation. Others in the industry may have some thoughts as well.
1. UTTF usually only comes in one viscosity, about 10cSt or 30 weight.
2. UTTF generally has a better AW and detergency pack with FM's included for wet clutches.
3. UTTF's generally cost more.
4. AW Hydraulic fluids come in various viscosities ranging from ISO 22 4 cst to ISO 220 18 cSt and higher,
5. AW Hydraulic fluids cost less
6. AW Hydraulic fluids usually have an AW package sufficient for most hydraulic applications.
In terms of cost verses performance, I would recommend something equal to or equivalent to Schaeffer's #254 in ISO 68 or Amsoil's AWJ AW Hydraulic fluids in ISO 68 for Michigan.
Hope this helps.
I'll give you some data (more like random thoughts
1. UTTF usually only comes in one viscosity, about 10cSt or 30 weight.
2. UTTF generally has a better AW and detergency pack with FM's included for wet clutches.
3. UTTF's generally cost more.
4. AW Hydraulic fluids come in various viscosities ranging from ISO 22 4 cst to ISO 220 18 cSt and higher,
5. AW Hydraulic fluids cost less
6. AW Hydraulic fluids usually have an AW package sufficient for most hydraulic applications.
In terms of cost verses performance, I would recommend something equal to or equivalent to Schaeffer's #254 in ISO 68 or Amsoil's AWJ AW Hydraulic fluids in ISO 68 for Michigan.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks MolaKule thats exactly what i was looking for thanks helps allot,the one issue why i was leaning toward AW is because of the various viscosities available,UTF seems to really thin when warm to hot at op temps and even in a properly working hyd system you can could loose performance from what i've experienced,but maybe there was other issues at fault.
so it sounds like a UTF is a better built oil by a degree with a better add pack?
so it sounds like a UTF is a better built oil by a degree with a better add pack?
MolaKule
Staff member
Hi Daman,
Here is my view: Each oil or lubricating fluid generally has a specific formulation for a specific application.
A UTTF is one of those fluids designed as a "fluid for all" hydraulic AND gear case/clutch applications as a way to reduce inventory. But the equipment has to be designed to use it. UTTF is beoming more widely distrbuted and used in oder to reduce inventory or reduce the need to stock various fluids. Very similar to the Universal ATF siutation.
In your case, I think the average AW hydraulic fluid is sufficient for your application. The Blend (Schaeffer's #254) or the full synthetic Amsoil AWJ should provide the necessary AW protection and viscosity requirements for your loader.
Go Wolverines!
Here is my view: Each oil or lubricating fluid generally has a specific formulation for a specific application.
A UTTF is one of those fluids designed as a "fluid for all" hydraulic AND gear case/clutch applications as a way to reduce inventory. But the equipment has to be designed to use it. UTTF is beoming more widely distrbuted and used in oder to reduce inventory or reduce the need to stock various fluids. Very similar to the Universal ATF siutation.
In your case, I think the average AW hydraulic fluid is sufficient for your application. The Blend (Schaeffer's #254) or the full synthetic Amsoil AWJ should provide the necessary AW protection and viscosity requirements for your loader.
Go Wolverines!
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
In your case, I think the average AW hydraulic fluid is sufficient for your application.
Thats what i want to make sure of here and chose the right oil, pumps and spool valves are very pricey now days so if one provides a better AW advantage to these components i'd go that rout.
but it sounds like either one would do the job sufficient?
In your case, I think the average AW hydraulic fluid is sufficient for your application.
Thats what i want to make sure of here and chose the right oil, pumps and spool valves are very pricey now days so if one provides a better AW advantage to these components i'd go that rout.
but it sounds like either one would do the job sufficient?
AW oils usually doesent dissolve water, instead the water falls out in the bottom of the sump were its supposed to be
drained before things go bad. If draining out water isnt
possible i´d prefer uttf/ thf instead to keep the water dissolved
and drained out during an oci.
drained before things go bad. If draining out water isnt
possible i´d prefer uttf/ thf instead to keep the water dissolved
and drained out during an oci.
MolaKule
Staff member
All oils will emulsify to some extent. What you want is demulsification for water separation.
Most hydraulic and UTTF lubes demulsify, while gear lubes emulsify for the reasons explained below.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530339#Post530339
Most hydraulic and UTTF lubes demulsify, while gear lubes emulsify for the reasons explained below.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530339#Post530339
I typically run torque fluid in our hydraulic applications. As MolaKule mentioned, it makes inventory management easier. It normally has a more robust additive package, and also a higher viscosity index/lower pour point.
e.g. Compare the specs of Schaeffer's #315 with the #254 ISO68 that MolaKule mentioned.
What are you running for a wheel loader?
e.g. Compare the specs of Schaeffer's #315 with the #254 ISO68 that MolaKule mentioned.
What are you running for a wheel loader?
Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
I typically run torque fluid in our hydraulic applications. As MolaKule mentioned, it makes inventory management easier. It normally has a more robust additive package, and also a higher viscosity index/lower pour point.
e.g. Compare the specs of Schaeffer's #315 with the #254 ISO68 that MolaKule mentioned.
What are you running for a wheel loader?
A UTF ? Any spacific brands?
Ford loaders....
I typically run torque fluid in our hydraulic applications. As MolaKule mentioned, it makes inventory management easier. It normally has a more robust additive package, and also a higher viscosity index/lower pour point.
e.g. Compare the specs of Schaeffer's #315 with the #254 ISO68 that MolaKule mentioned.
What are you running for a wheel loader?
A UTF ? Any spacific brands?
Ford loaders....
Originally Posted By: daman
A UTF ? Any spacific brands?
We run Texas Refinery's Universal Torque Fluid.
A UTF ? Any spacific brands?
We run Texas Refinery's Universal Torque Fluid.
I'll probably settle on a UTF....
but now i have another thought looking at the oil i pulled a small sample from the reservoir the oil looks surprising clean and new looking mind you i have know idea how old or hrs it has,thinking maybe pull a sample and sent it in for Oil analysis or should i just change it out mind you it holds 25 gals thats a little bit of coin in fluid.
thoughts????
but now i have another thought looking at the oil i pulled a small sample from the reservoir the oil looks surprising clean and new looking mind you i have know idea how old or hrs it has,thinking maybe pull a sample and sent it in for Oil analysis or should i just change it out mind you it holds 25 gals thats a little bit of coin in fluid.
thoughts????
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Thanks DH for your post,,
whats your thoughts on some saying a UTF has a lil better add pack? and what IYO is a name brand?
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Thanks DH for your post,,
whats your thoughts on some saying a UTF has a lil better add pack? and what IYO is a name brand?
Originally Posted By: daman
I'll probably settle on a UTF....
but now i have another thought looking at the oil i pulled a small sample from the reservoir the oil looks surprising clean and new looking mind you i have know idea how old or hrs it has,thinking maybe pull a sample and sent it in for Oil analysis or should i just change it out mind you it holds 25 gals thats a little bit of coin in fluid.
thoughts????
It certainly won't hurt to send in a sample for analysis. Much cheaper than dumping the 25 gallons if it is relatively fresh.
I'll probably settle on a UTF....
but now i have another thought looking at the oil i pulled a small sample from the reservoir the oil looks surprising clean and new looking mind you i have know idea how old or hrs it has,thinking maybe pull a sample and sent it in for Oil analysis or should i just change it out mind you it holds 25 gals thats a little bit of coin in fluid.
thoughts????
It certainly won't hurt to send in a sample for analysis. Much cheaper than dumping the 25 gallons if it is relatively fresh.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Thanks DH for your post,,
whats your thoughts on some saying a UTF has a lil better add pack? and what IYO is a name brand?
The "lil better ad pack" is for gears/bearings. A high pressure piston pump will shear the UTF quicker usually than a AW fluid.
Name brands...
Mobil
Shell
Those two brands I have tested with, and provide good results.
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Thanks DH for your post,,
whats your thoughts on some saying a UTF has a lil better add pack? and what IYO is a name brand?
The "lil better ad pack" is for gears/bearings. A high pressure piston pump will shear the UTF quicker usually than a AW fluid.
Name brands...
Mobil
Shell
Those two brands I have tested with, and provide good results.
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Thanks DH for your post,,
whats your thoughts on some saying a UTF has a lil better add pack? and what IYO is a name brand?
The "lil better ad pack" is for gears/bearings. A high pressure piston pump will shear the UTF quicker usually than a AW fluid.
Name brands...
Mobil
Shell
Those two brands I have tested with, and provide good results.
Thanks...
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
When possible, always use a name brand AW hydraulic oil in a hydraulic only system. I'm an engineer for a major hydraulic component (pump/motor/valve) manufacturer...and we design and test our components for use with AW hydraulic fluid. We have seen reduced life and efficiency with other fluids. Yes, you may be ok with the UTF...but why try something, when you know the AW is made for it.
Thanks DH for your post,,
whats your thoughts on some saying a UTF has a lil better add pack? and what IYO is a name brand?
The "lil better ad pack" is for gears/bearings. A high pressure piston pump will shear the UTF quicker usually than a AW fluid.
Name brands...
Mobil
Shell
Those two brands I have tested with, and provide good results.
Thanks...
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