Which car/engine (GM 2.0 or 2.5)?

[otis24]

I am looking to buy a cheap $500 or less car to drive back and forth to work, 6 miles one way. The neighbor has a 1991 Pontiac Sunbird with 88k miles, 2.0 engine. They purchased from the dealership where I work with only 12k miles.

A former co-worker has a 1988 Chevrolet Celebrity with the 2.5 4 cyl engine. The vehicle came from the school where he works. I know that they pretty much change the oil there every 3-4k miles. The mileage on this vehicle is unknown.

My main goal is fuel economy. These two vehicles are both rated the same for mpg. If all other things were comparable (shape of vehicle, etc...) which engine would you choose?

 

[mechanicx]

How many miles are on the '88 with the 2.5? I think the 2.0 has a timing belt (don't know if it has been changed) and generally the 2.5 is considered to be more durable. '88 is around the time the 2.5 got some upgrades-DIS, balancer shafts, oil filter in the oil pan etc.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I would choose 1988 Chevrolet Celebrity with 2.5l engine, for 3-4k OCI on the car.

 

[addyguy]

Almost all Sunbird OHC engines (GM of Brazil engine) suffered from head-gasket failure. Like the IM gaskets on 3.4's, failure rate is almost 100%.

Beyond the HG issue, the engine is pretty tough and trouble-free.

Even though they are 'rated' the same, the Sunbird is a much smaller, lighter car, and will get better mileage. The 2.0 OHC engine is much peppier and quicker in that car, too.

The 2.5-power Celebrity is a larger, more roomy and comfortable car, but is much slower and 'softer' than the Sunbird. It will be much quieter and less buzzy than the Sunbird. As mechanix said, this was a good year for the 2.5 - lots of upgrades. A very, very solid engine.

If fuel economy on a short commute is the ONLY concern for this decision, I'd go for the Sunbird. It will cost less to fill, as the tank is smaller. If you plan on doing any longer trips at all, or hauling the odd load of stuff, or driving people around, the Celebrity will be a much more comfortable car to do this.

 

[silverrat]

VS.

?

Pick the bigger engine.

 

[beast3300]

Originally Posted By: otis24
If all other things were comparable (shape of vehicle, etc...) which engine would you choose?


2.5 Iron Duke hands down more reliable than the Isuzu 2.0 OHC.

 

[beast3300]

BTW the picture of the Celebrity looks more like a 84 or 85 model year.

 

[defektes]

I used to have a Pontiac Sunbird with the 2.0l. I put 130k on it before I sold it. Reliable car, comfortable. I abused the living daylights out of this car. Had regular problems like a waterpump, fuel pump and a transmission rebuild. It was my first car, if I saw it again today I would buy it back just due to nostalgia.

My grand father had a Celebrity with the 2.5, got to 300k with one tranny rebuild, alternator, and consumed oil. Also a good little beater.

 

[sneakboxer]

The "Iron Duke" would get my vote. My father had two that were running strong at 250K when the bodies fell off. The only issues i can remember were two engine mounts, one alternator and with minimal maintenance. For some reason deer loved to run in front of those beaters.

I have no experience on the 2.0, best of luck

 

[T-Keith]

Iron duke would also be my favorite. As long as you don't rev them too high they will practically live forever. Two issues with that particular vintage: The crankshaft sensor can go out, a difficult but inexpensive repair, and with a three speed automatic highway mileage sucks. My first car had an Iron Duke and was the most reliable car I've ever owned.

The OHC 2.0(actually an opel engine, a version is still in use today) is not as bulletproof. It has a timing belt that is very difficult to repair(gears on the 2.5) and I've heard of head gasket problems too. Plus they are a dog, even though power is close my 2.5 felt much stronger then the 2.0 I owned.

 

[SteveSRT8]

another vote for the 2.5 'Iron Duke'.

It's definitely the best choice for the hi miles club!

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: T-Keith
Iron duke would also be my favorite. As long as you don't rev them too high they will practically live forever. Two issues with that particular vintage: The crankshaft sensor can go out, a difficult but inexpensive repair, and with a three speed automatic highway mileage sucks.


I dunno, I always felt they got great mileage but that's based on somewhat limited exposure to that engine. We had a 2.5L Grand Am for about 2 years and it could do about 35 MPG on the highway. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the 2.0 engine in the Sunbirds.

 

[artificialist]

I'd choose the 2.5L.

One thing you will need to buy, however, is some specialty tools to deal with the weird filter setup in the 2.5.

That in mind, they don't cost much.

 

[otis24]

Passenger room and power is of no concern. Just a daily commuter for a short (6 mile drive). The drive will drop to 3 miles one way once the local bridge is repaired in about a year. How many miles before head gasket failure on the 2.0?

 

[swalve]

I'd get the sunbird. Newer, lighter, etc.

 

[eljefino]

Both those cars look suprisingly good. I've heard of timing gear issues with the 2.5 but that might not be all years. I had a cutlass ciera, same car, but with the 3.3 v6 and it was awesome. Have heard of these with 2.5s getting 33-34 MPG highway.

Both make great beaters with cheap front end parts, tires, etc. The j-body rides like a bigger car with soft struts and tall tires. My ciera was a total rattle trap though, creaky doors, rattly dash. Jack one corner up to change a tire and you practically couldn't open the doors... 1982 tech!

I would not fear the head gasket on the sunbird, if you need one you need one. If you're driving $500 cars you may as well get the mechanical skills or experiment/ learn in the hot seat in a go-for-broke if it fails.

This is a great conundrum becaue both are great cars. See who'll bargain more?

 

[addyguy]

I know I gave a general answer before, but if I had to make a choice - it would be the Sunbird. An OHC I-4 in a smaller, lighter car will get better mileage on short hops.

As for the HG, no telling. A few last the life of the car, some go at 60k miles. With 88k miles, there is a chance it's been done. If not, maybe re-torque the head bolts, and make sure it doesn't overheat, and will probably last a good while.

 

[GMBoy]

Just on looks, I'd go with the Sunbird as it appears much better taken care of.

 

[carwreck]

I had a Celebrity a long time ago as free "company car"
The iron duke is very reliable, but very low torque.

Iron duke accelerates very slowly, so you learn to take corners without slowing down.

Notice how the Celebrity is missing its hubcaps. It has 13" steel wheels and 185/80r13 narrow tires.

The tires/wheels flex so much that the wheel covers pop off during tight turns. (just like in the Bullitt movie when the Mustang is chasing the Charger in San Francisco)

 

[nthach]

The Iron Duke. Loud, heavy, can be a gas guzzler but it's a sturdy motor.