Subaru Forester and synthetic oil

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Yes, n/a Subaru's can use most any oil and easily go to 7,500 miles on most synthetics and especially if it is a more robust oil.

Subaru does not use a break-in oil. I've seen folks from Subaru Indiana Automotive (Outbacks/Legacy's) post this as well as people that received info about the Gunma plant (Foresters/Imprezas). The high moly could be from assembly lube and the moly coated pistons.

Check subaruforester.org and there are a few polls on head gasket problems by MY and engine type. Like Subes said, the HG problems are not like they used to be. I'm also curious to know the Forester forum you're referring to.

And for the reports of higher consumption with M1, it's likely the turbo models that are being referred to and pretty much the same applies for any Energy Conserving oil, IMHO. There are guys with highly modified STI's running thin 30 grades.

-Dennis
 
Subaru resolved the HG issue in the early 2000's, though Bill in Utah had a HG issue with his Forester that was outside the general range of years that the HG was known for. But the overall number of Subarus with HG issues went down considerably after '03 or so.

Subarus are great vehicles, with great engines, and the non-turbo ones will run on anything and are gentle on oil. Use whatever oil you like best with confidence.

As for the whole M1 thing, I can't comment as a whole but only in my own personal experience. I've been driving a Subaru Forester for over 10 years. My first one for over 9 years, and my new one for about a year and half now. My current fill is M1 and is the first time I've used M1 in either of my Foresters. It is also the first time I've ever had to add oil between oil changes. I can't comment on Subarus as a whole, but that's my personal experience with it.

I will follow that up and say that it's the first time I've used synthetic as well, and it also was a change in oil brands as well. People have commented that changes in oils like that will cause consumption at first, but that it will settle down after a couple OCIs. I'm going to stick it out and see if that's true and do a few more oil changes with M1 0w-30
 
Oh yeah, I also wanted to add. If I remember correctly Subaru has changed the HG used for '10 it's more like the HG used on the turbo models now. No comment was made why they switched, and it probably has more to do with the cost savings of a single HG than one for the Turbo and one for the Non-Turbo, but that's just my guess on why
 
Originally Posted By: sicko
Subaru resolved the HG issue in the early 2000's, though Bill in Utah had a HG issue with his Forester that was outside the general range of years that the HG was known for. But the overall number of Subarus with HG issues went down considerably after '03 or so.

Subarus are great vehicles, with great engines, and the non-turbo ones will run on anything and are gentle on oil. Use whatever oil you like best with confidence.

As for the whole M1 thing, I can't comment as a whole but only in my own personal experience. I've been driving a Subaru Forester for over 10 years. My first one for over 9 years, and my new one for about a year and half now. My current fill is M1 and is the first time I've used M1 in either of my Foresters. It is also the first time I've ever had to add oil between oil changes. I can't comment on Subarus as a whole, but that's my personal experience with it.

I will follow that up and say that it's the first time I've used synthetic as well, and it also was a change in oil brands as well. People have commented that changes in oils like that will cause consumption at first, but that it will settle down after a couple OCIs. I'm going to stick it out and see if that's true and do a few more oil changes with M1 0w-30


Before you used M1 what conventional oil were you using?
 
Originally Posted By: Soobs
Originally Posted By: sicko

As for the whole M1 thing, I can't comment as a whole but only in my own personal experience. I've been driving a Subaru Forester for over 10 years. My first one for over 9 years, and my new one for about a year and half now. My current fill is M1 and is the first time I've used M1 in either of my Foresters. It is also the first time I've ever had to add oil between oil changes. I can't comment on Subarus as a whole, but that's my personal experience with it.

I will follow that up and say that it's the first time I've used synthetic as well, and it also was a change in oil brands as well. People have commented that changes in oils like that will cause consumption at first, but that it will settle down after a couple OCIs. I'm going to stick it out and see if that's true and do a few more oil changes with M1 0w-30


Before you used M1 what conventional oil were you using?




The Subaru is an '09 Forester (non-turbo) purchased in August '08 and had previously always been on conventional oil. Prior to the M1 I was using Havoline DS, and was actually going to put more Havoline DS in it but couldn't find the last 5 qts of it that I had so I just used the M1 that I had.

Like I said, I can only comment on my experience, and that's my experience up to this point. I really want to stress "up to this point" b/c I fully expect everything to settle down and the vehicle will no longer consume M1. As I mentioned it's the first time I've used synthetic with it, and I've heard various people mention that after a switch from a steady diet of one oil to another, that the engine consumed more oil at first. I don't know how to explain it, but I've heard it from so many different people that I'm okay with the oil consumption right now, but if after say the third OCI of M1 if it's still consuming, then I'll probably switch to PP or Valvoline SynPower. Some people have mentioned the consumption thing, some people never have to add anything even when changing oils, I'm really not concerned about it as long as it settles down
 
Thanks for all the info. The site my wife read this was Subaru Forester. com so somthing like it. I told her just use what
Bill uses.
 
Originally Posted By: Bighank
My wife just got a new 2010 Subaru Forester. Now on the
Forester forum,s,she reads about head gasket problems. Her
2010 has the 2.5 NA engine. On the forum they are saying that
using synthetic oil adds to the problem. This does not sound
right to me. Any thoughts on this?


A little late to the party... Oops!
33.gif


Total false on syn oil doing ANYTHING to/for head gaskets.

Originally Posted By: tenderloin

Bill from Utah is the Subaru expert here. He runs mostly conventional oil that meets what the owners manual requires..and he gets great results. Cannot argue with success.

If you want to use synthetic oil, do so with confidence.


Far from a expert on Subarus other that spending some time researching and then using some different oils on my 07 Outback.

So far I really like Halvoline DS and Pennzoil conventional. I've run a few OCIs of PP and while it ran okay, nothing special over PYB that I can find...
21.gif


If you want to run the syn, good to go. I've got a few OCIs of on sale QS HP that I'm going to use and may do a UOA on the 2nd OCI and see how the engine is doing..

Originally Posted By: Gubaru
Stay away from Mobil 1, our motors don't agree with it. I am running PP and not a problem, it use to burn Mobil 1.


Huh?
54.gif
Different motors like different oils. If we saw MANY Subaru motors (that is what this thread is about) having issues with Mobil 1 oils AND then those SAME engines had NO problems using PP then your post would made some sense...

Originally Posted By: JayhawkRoy
It appears the key to the head gasket issue is to use the Subaru coolant conditioner if your owner's manual recommends it for the Forester. It is $2 or less at the Subaru dealer. My instructions are to put it in every 30K when the coolant change is done, and we have had good results so far. 130K on an 03 Legacy.

Have also used synthetic oil for quite some time since 2003 and the Legacy does fine. Have used Mobil 1 and used more oil in between oil changes than with any other oil, so I don't use it anymore. Best performance to date is with Valvoline Durablend at 5K intervals.


Yep the conditioner is very important. Seems that Subaru's have porous castings that cause "issues" with the heads and even the later model years without the gasket problems (so far its looking like 2004 and later are "safe") need the stuff every 30k along with the coolant change out. (I need to get mine done since I'm still on the factory fill @ 37k)...
45.gif



The Subaru motors (NA) are easy on the oil. Pretty well anything is going to be fine. Mobil 1 is known to burn a little more easy on quite a few different engines here BTW.

My head gasket problems (I could smell coolant (and still do at times) seem to be more directed towards the radiator cap and coolant tank. I took it in to the stealership a few times and they were able to reduce the smell without tearing off the drivers head (where the odor is strongest).

I'm still under warranty and hopefully will not have to use it. This is my first Subaru and I'm impressed with how it performs. I'd buy another one easy.

Take care, Bill
 
Thanks Bill; I always enjoy your posts. My wife ia fan of yours. She says Bill is down to earth and no bull. She says
he not like some of other guys,who seem like teeange boys giddy
on new oils.
 
A note on the AWD...

You can rotate the tires for better wear & use on an auto but it won't hurt anything if you don't. These aren't the old Volvo's that would break at the mere sight of an 1/8 inch difference. Different tire sizes is a no-no but wear has been accounted for by Subaru.

On the other hand if you have a manual then it is split 50/50 all the time. So unless you are doing some clutch drops and spinning the rears the tires should wear pretty evenly.
 
A month does not pass when another problem pops up re. Mobil 1 and the performance the oil produces.something must be up with this oil. Month after month.
54.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
A note on the AWD...

You can rotate the tires for better wear & use on an auto but it won't hurt anything if you don't. These aren't the old Volvo's that would break at the mere sight of an 1/8 inch difference. Different tire sizes is a no-no but wear has been accounted for by Subaru.

On the other hand if you have a manual then it is split 50/50 all the time. So unless you are doing some clutch drops and spinning the rears the tires should wear pretty evenly.


That's one of the big benefits I noticed with our Subaru. Very even tire wear all around.
 
I have a 2009 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 NA engine. The head gasket problems with Subaru motors is with the design of the 2.5 NA engine. The other Subaru engines do not have the problem, it is not a problem with the boxer engine design, just this particular subaru engine. From the information I have obtained from several differnet forums, the 2.5 NA engine is what is called an "open deck block" engine design meaning the top of the cylinders are not supported by the engine block. The lack of support allows the cylinder bores to move slightly which rubs them against the head gasket and cylinder head that sits ontop of the block. This wears head gasket and causes it to leak and fail. An open block design is used because it allows for a block mold design that can be re-used at the factory. The turbo 2.5 boxer has a closed engine block that has cylinder bores that are supported by the engine block and do not move and wear on the head gasket. The turbo engine block is not the same as the NA engine block and is made with a one time sand block mold which cost more to make. There are many other open block engine designs that do not have the subaru head gasket issue. Apparently Subaru may have bored out the cylinder too much to increase the engine size to 2.5 liters, leaving too thin cylinder bores with not enough rigidty and to thin a head gasket that is now more prone to failure than on previous engines that used the same block and head but with smaller cylinders.
The Subaru coolant condition is nothing more than Bars Stop Leak and the package is the same. Not much as really be done to solve this problem. Subaru went through a series of head gasket changes from early 2000 to today helped solve some of the problem but it appears that even 2010 can still have early head gasket failures. These model years just do not have enough miles on them yet. Subaru forums are starting to see more reports of 2.5 NA model years 2005 and latter having head gasket failures, the problem still appears to be there.
Proper maintenance and use of the Subaru coolant may help prolong the life and durability of the head gasket. Some Subaru mechanics reccomend using the Subaru coolant and changing the oil at the reccomended intervals to help mitigate the chance of early head gasket failure in this engine. I know I will not be experiementing with long duration oil changes intervals. With a Subaru 2.5 NA it would probably be wise to ensure you have oil that is fresh with no acids and has all the aditivites that help preserve oil seals and gaskets. On all the Subaru forums I have not seen anyone say anything about synthetic being a problem or any different that dino as far as head gasket life. The important thing is to not let the oil build up contaminants that may attack the head gasket. Even with proper maintenance you may still get a failure of the head gasket as the underlying problem with the engine design is still there.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Good to know.
With the miles you have on your current two, it is reassuring to hear from you.
We are recent converts to the faith, and I find myself thinking that maybe a 5spd Legacy would be an interesting replacement for my '99 Accord, as opposed to another 5spd 4cyl Accord.


My Legacy is a 5spd, still going strong on original clutch and no head gasket problems at 204K miles. In fact, I just posted pictures after doing the valve cover gaskets over the weekend of the sparkly-clean motor innards.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors


That's one of the big benefits I noticed with our Subaru. Very even tire wear all around.


Ya I meant 1/32rd though before dunno why I said 1/8th, older Volvo's pre-haldex as I've found out are extremely picky about tire wear.

Auto's usually drive 90% power to the front unless accelerating briskly so you technically could wear the fronts faster. I love the fact manuals are always 50/50.
 
'03 Forester. Put Mobil 1 5W30 in after 3K mi and haven't looked back. At 60 K mi uses less than half quart between 5Kmi changes.
Proper coolant is the issue, NOT synthetic oil.
How does a car "not like" an oil?
 
Originally Posted By: hofcat
I have a 2009 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 NA engine. The head gasket problems with Subaru motors is with the design of the 2.5 NA engine. The other Subaru engines do not have the problem, it is not a problem with the boxer engine design, just this particular subaru engine. From the information I have obtained from several differnet forums, the 2.5 NA engine is what is called an "open deck block" engine design meaning the top of the cylinders are not supported by the engine block. The lack of support allows the cylinder bores to move slightly which rubs them against the head gasket and cylinder head that sits ontop of the block. This wears head gasket and causes it to leak and fail. An open block design is used because it allows for a block mold design that can be re-used at the factory. The turbo 2.5 boxer has a closed engine block that has cylinder bores that are supported by the engine block and do not move and wear on the head gasket. The turbo engine block is not the same as the NA engine block and is made with a one time sand block mold which cost more to make. There are many other open block engine designs that do not have the subaru head gasket issue. Apparently Subaru may have bored out the cylinder too much to increase the engine size to 2.5 liters, leaving too thin cylinder bores with not enough rigidty and to thin a head gasket that is now more prone to failure than on previous engines that used the same block and head but with smaller cylinders.
The Subaru coolant condition is nothing more than Bars Stop Leak and the package is the same. Not much as really be done to solve this problem. Subaru went through a series of head gasket changes from early 2000 to today helped solve some of the problem but it appears that even 2010 can still have early head gasket failures. These model years just do not have enough miles on them yet. Subaru forums are starting to see more reports of 2.5 NA model years 2005 and latter having head gasket failures, the problem still appears to be there.
Proper maintenance and use of the Subaru coolant may help prolong the life and durability of the head gasket. Some Subaru mechanics reccomend using the Subaru coolant and changing the oil at the reccomended intervals to help mitigate the chance of early head gasket failure in this engine. I know I will not be experiementing with long duration oil changes intervals. With a Subaru 2.5 NA it would probably be wise to ensure you have oil that is fresh with no acids and has all the aditivites that help preserve oil seals and gaskets. On all the Subaru forums I have not seen anyone say anything about synthetic being a problem or any different that dino as far as head gasket life. The important thing is to not let the oil build up contaminants that may attack the head gasket. Even with proper maintenance you may still get a failure of the head gasket as the underlying problem with the engine design is still there.


I think you're wrong about the gasket issues. Think about it... If Subaru still had these issues they would be 60k or 100k mile warranties like Mitsubishi and Hyundai. The issue stems from the material used in the early generation gaskets. For more a very detailed guide to the problems please go to

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/
 
2009 forester ej25 non turbo. been running auto-rx since we bought the car. had dealer oil changes with castrol synthetic then after awhile went to an indie sube mechanic using motul. had a scheduled coolant change awhile back and nothing was amiss. just did an 80k km service and soon after oil started to show up on the garage floor... the rest of the story and pictures are here:

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/head-gasket-leak-264338/#post2764170

subaru has already told us that the warranty expired over 8 months ago, so we are out of luck. someone on the forum said he was charged $3600 by the dealer to change both head gaskets. an indie subaru mechanic who confirmed the leak for us said he is starting to see more of my gen of forester coming in with head gasket leaks with varying mileage. he told me that there was a redesign of the head gasket in mid 2010 but i forgot to ask what had changed.

are there any other options left for me? money is tight right now with xmas at the doorstep.
 
Have they figured out the high oil consumption issues with the 2011+ FB Forester engines yet? I know they have made a few changes (rings).

It seems that no brand is free of some kind of major problem these days.
 
Originally Posted By: dc2r
2009 forester ej25 non turbo. been running auto-rx since we bought the car. had dealer oil changes with castrol synthetic then after awhile went to an indie sube mechanic using motul. had a scheduled coolant change awhile back and nothing was amiss. just did an 80k km service and soon after oil started to show up on the garage floor... the rest of the story and pictures are here:

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/head-gasket-leak-264338/#post2764170

subaru has already told us that the warranty expired over 8 months ago, so we are out of luck. someone on the forum said he was charged $3600 by the dealer to change both head gaskets. an indie subaru mechanic who confirmed the leak for us said he is starting to see more of my gen of forester coming in with head gasket leaks with varying mileage. he told me that there was a redesign of the head gasket in mid 2010 but i forgot to ask what had changed.

are there any other options left for me? money is tight right now with xmas at the doorstep.

Call 1-800-Subaru-3 and see if SoA can assist in any way.

-Dennis
 
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