1950 Dodge D35, Flathead 6, Which oil to use?
- Thread starter mechjames
- Start date
- Status
Out of curiosity, I had to get out my '57/'58 Plymouth service manual. Here are the oil recommendations.
Temp. --------- Recommended-------- Options
Above 32F -------- SAE 30 ---------- 20W40, 10W30
Above 10F -------- SAE 20W --------- 20W40, 10W30
Above -10F-------- SAE 10W --------- 10W30, 5W20
Below -10F--------SAE 5W ----------- 5W20
Temp. --------- Recommended-------- Options
Above 32F -------- SAE 30 ---------- 20W40, 10W30
Above 10F -------- SAE 20W --------- 20W40, 10W30
Above -10F-------- SAE 10W --------- 10W30, 5W20
Below -10F--------SAE 5W ----------- 5W20
Cant go wrong with a 10w30 HDEO or RTS 5w40, especially since you don't have any catalytic conv. to worry about.
If your running dual springs with that "3/4 race" cam you will want to remove the inner spring or have light springs(maybe the stock ones, check for bind at your lift if running the stocks?) installed during the break in, and just to be safe why not run the light ones during the first 100mi err um 160km or so, just careful not to rev it to high(we don't want the valves to be introduced to the pistons do we).
Really it is lobe lift angle and spring pressure that kill flat tappets more than anything. I don't know if your the one building the engine or not, but BE SURE TO CHECK THE TAPPETS FOR SIDE CLEARANCE, for if they do not spin freely you WILL end up with "flat cam".
Cool car, I remember seeing a RUSTY 51' plymouth coupe with the Flathead 6 in it and wishing it could be my project. I wasn't interested in the Flathead then, I was all about swapping a 327 chevy into it, maybe it's better I didn't get my hands on it. Not sure what happened to it, haven't seen it in about 10yrs.
If your running dual springs with that "3/4 race" cam you will want to remove the inner spring or have light springs(maybe the stock ones, check for bind at your lift if running the stocks?) installed during the break in, and just to be safe why not run the light ones during the first 100mi err um 160km or so, just careful not to rev it to high(we don't want the valves to be introduced to the pistons do we).
Really it is lobe lift angle and spring pressure that kill flat tappets more than anything. I don't know if your the one building the engine or not, but BE SURE TO CHECK THE TAPPETS FOR SIDE CLEARANCE, for if they do not spin freely you WILL end up with "flat cam".
Cool car, I remember seeing a RUSTY 51' plymouth coupe with the Flathead 6 in it and wishing it could be my project. I wasn't interested in the Flathead then, I was all about swapping a 327 chevy into it, maybe it's better I didn't get my hands on it. Not sure what happened to it, haven't seen it in about 10yrs.
Originally Posted By: JT1
Cant go wrong with a 10w30 HDEO or RTS 5w40, especially since you don't have any catalytic conv. to worry about.
If your running dual springs with that "3/4 race" cam you will want to remove the inner spring or have light springs(maybe the stock ones, check for bind at your lift if running the stocks?) installed during the break in, and just to be safe why not run the light ones during the first 100mi err um 160km or so, just careful not to rev it to high(we don't want the valves to be introduced to the pistons do we).
Really it is lobe lift angle and spring pressure that kill flat tappets more than anything. I don't know if your the one building the engine or not, but BE SURE TO CHECK THE TAPPETS FOR SIDE CLEARANCE, for if they do not spin freely you WILL end up with "flat cam".
Cool car, I remember seeing a RUSTY 51' plymouth coupe with the Flathead 6 in it and wishing it could be my project. I wasn't interested in the Flathead then, I was all about swapping a 327 chevy into it, maybe it's better I didn't get my hands on it. Not sure what happened to it, haven't seen it in about 10yrs.
I didn't build the engine, but it was built at my high school auto shop with an experienced engine builder. I'm sure that the above would have been taken into consideration. One thing to point out:
Originally Posted By: JT1
just careful not to rev it to high(we don't want the valves to be introduced to the pistons do we).
Its a flathead motor, the valves will never touch the pistons, its parallel with them beside them. Think about a briggs and stratton L Head, it's like that.
Cant go wrong with a 10w30 HDEO or RTS 5w40, especially since you don't have any catalytic conv. to worry about.
If your running dual springs with that "3/4 race" cam you will want to remove the inner spring or have light springs(maybe the stock ones, check for bind at your lift if running the stocks?) installed during the break in, and just to be safe why not run the light ones during the first 100mi err um 160km or so, just careful not to rev it to high(we don't want the valves to be introduced to the pistons do we).
Really it is lobe lift angle and spring pressure that kill flat tappets more than anything. I don't know if your the one building the engine or not, but BE SURE TO CHECK THE TAPPETS FOR SIDE CLEARANCE, for if they do not spin freely you WILL end up with "flat cam".
Cool car, I remember seeing a RUSTY 51' plymouth coupe with the Flathead 6 in it and wishing it could be my project. I wasn't interested in the Flathead then, I was all about swapping a 327 chevy into it, maybe it's better I didn't get my hands on it. Not sure what happened to it, haven't seen it in about 10yrs.
I didn't build the engine, but it was built at my high school auto shop with an experienced engine builder. I'm sure that the above would have been taken into consideration. One thing to point out:
Originally Posted By: JT1
just careful not to rev it to high(we don't want the valves to be introduced to the pistons do we).
Its a flathead motor, the valves will never touch the pistons, its parallel with them beside them. Think about a briggs and stratton L Head, it's like that.
I would use a conventional oil with a good level of zddp ( I assume its a flat tappet cam).
I know that Rotella T and Brad Penn both have good zddp numbers but I am sure some experts here can add to that list. I use Rotella T (10w3o)in my 1969 Camaro and have been very pleased.
I know that Rotella T and Brad Penn both have good zddp numbers but I am sure some experts here can add to that list. I use Rotella T (10w3o)in my 1969 Camaro and have been very pleased.
That's a sweet looking ride!!
Originally Posted By: mechjames
I'm asking this question on behalf of my friend. We're almost ready to fire up his 1950 Dodge D35 motor in his 1950 Dodge Wayfarer. It was bored .40 over and built with a 3/4 race cam. Decked, Milled, ported and polished head. Will start out with 1 carburetor, but might eventually get a dual carb intake manifold.
An estimate of horsepower might be around 125-150, but we haven't been able to dyno it yet. I believe it has the 218ci motor, but might have the 235ci.
What would be the best oil to run in this motor?
Shell Rotella syn 5W40 or Rotella 15w40 if it never sees cold weather.
I'm asking this question on behalf of my friend. We're almost ready to fire up his 1950 Dodge D35 motor in his 1950 Dodge Wayfarer. It was bored .40 over and built with a 3/4 race cam. Decked, Milled, ported and polished head. Will start out with 1 carburetor, but might eventually get a dual carb intake manifold.
An estimate of horsepower might be around 125-150, but we haven't been able to dyno it yet. I believe it has the 218ci motor, but might have the 235ci.
What would be the best oil to run in this motor?
Shell Rotella syn 5W40 or Rotella 15w40 if it never sees cold weather.
Here's an alright video of it already running. I have to sift through about 20 min of footage to make a good video of it just starting for the first time, but here you go. Here's how it sounds, with dual glasspacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVeAX6edYfo
We ended up using Comp Cams ZDDP Enhanced Break in Oil (10W30 i believe) for the first half hour of break in, and we're going to be switching it to Rotella 15w40 Tuesday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVeAX6edYfo
We ended up using Comp Cams ZDDP Enhanced Break in Oil (10W30 i believe) for the first half hour of break in, and we're going to be switching it to Rotella 15w40 Tuesday.
Last edited:
Chrysler's oil recommendations remained virtually unchanged from the 1930s up to the 1960s. I would expect that the 1950 Dodge engine is very similar to the 1936-1942 Plymouth engines, which the factory recommended a 20 or 30-weight oil for summer-time driving.
Considering fact that the viscosity index of oils of that era were fairly low, any modern 10W-30 HDEO would have sufficient viscosity even for a modified flat-head engine. If you want the best oil for this engine, seeing as you're also in Canada, you should consider 0W-30 Esso XD-3 Extra.
Considering fact that the viscosity index of oils of that era were fairly low, any modern 10W-30 HDEO would have sufficient viscosity even for a modified flat-head engine. If you want the best oil for this engine, seeing as you're also in Canada, you should consider 0W-30 Esso XD-3 Extra.
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
What the heck is a 3/4 race cam?
Back in those days, a full race cam has timing specs somthing like 40-80 and 80-40 (sometimes as much as 45-85). So the intake valve opens 40 d BTDC and closes 80 d ABDC or about 290-300 degress of durration 6500 RPMs peak power. Real race cams went all the way up to 330 durration for speedway cars.
A 3/4 cam was something on the order of 35-75:75-35 or 290 degrees of durration 5800 RPM peak power but still streetable.
A "sports" cam was something like 25-65:65-25 or 2790 durration 5300 RPMs--eminently streetable, a useful performance boost without doing anything agressive to the engine.
A mild street cam was on the order of 20-50:50-20 or 250 degrees 5000 RPM peak power.
Remember, this was for early 1960-ish engine technologies. Ref: "Performance Tuninig: Theory and Practice" A. Graham Bell.
------------------------------------------------------------
Just to put this into a modern perspective, My Ferrari motor has a (stock) timing of 16-56:50-16 and produces peak power at 8,250 RPMs. My how port technology has changes the timing and durration of cams. That is, if you make the air flow through the ports with ease (and without excessive port sizes) you don't need all that much cam to make power at high RPMs.
What the heck is a 3/4 race cam?
Back in those days, a full race cam has timing specs somthing like 40-80 and 80-40 (sometimes as much as 45-85). So the intake valve opens 40 d BTDC and closes 80 d ABDC or about 290-300 degress of durration 6500 RPMs peak power. Real race cams went all the way up to 330 durration for speedway cars.
A 3/4 cam was something on the order of 35-75:75-35 or 290 degrees of durration 5800 RPM peak power but still streetable.
A "sports" cam was something like 25-65:65-25 or 2790 durration 5300 RPMs--eminently streetable, a useful performance boost without doing anything agressive to the engine.
A mild street cam was on the order of 20-50:50-20 or 250 degrees 5000 RPM peak power.
Remember, this was for early 1960-ish engine technologies. Ref: "Performance Tuninig: Theory and Practice" A. Graham Bell.
------------------------------------------------------------
Just to put this into a modern perspective, My Ferrari motor has a (stock) timing of 16-56:50-16 and produces peak power at 8,250 RPMs. My how port technology has changes the timing and durration of cams. That is, if you make the air flow through the ports with ease (and without excessive port sizes) you don't need all that much cam to make power at high RPMs.
mechjames - Can you leave that break in oil longer? Are you sure it has to be dumped so soon?
It might be good and smart to run the engine with that break in oil in there for a longer time, for a bunch of reasons.
It might be good and smart to run the engine with that break in oil in there for a longer time, for a bunch of reasons.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
mechjames - Can you leave that break in oil longer? Are you sure it has to be dumped so soon?
It might be good and smart to run the engine with that break in oil in there for a longer time, for a bunch of reasons.
I believe the plan now is to run Rotella with the GM engine oil supplement (which our shop teacher says also helps with breaking in). High in Zinc and Phosphorous too. It will now be run for a longer period of time with that mix. He seems to think the 10w30 is too thin, and we should be running 20w50 Kendall GT1, so I think a 15w40 is a good compromise.
mechjames - Can you leave that break in oil longer? Are you sure it has to be dumped so soon?
It might be good and smart to run the engine with that break in oil in there for a longer time, for a bunch of reasons.
I believe the plan now is to run Rotella with the GM engine oil supplement (which our shop teacher says also helps with breaking in). High in Zinc and Phosphorous too. It will now be run for a longer period of time with that mix. He seems to think the 10w30 is too thin, and we should be running 20w50 Kendall GT1, so I think a 15w40 is a good compromise.
why would you run 20w-50 when they ran for decades when they were new on 20 and 30 wt oils?
I think your shop teacher is off his rocker a little bit and gone too extreme
I bet if you could find 40w-70 motor oil easily at Walmart thats what he would be telling you to use
I think your shop teacher is off his rocker a little bit and gone too extreme
I bet if you could find 40w-70 motor oil easily at Walmart thats what he would be telling you to use
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
mechjames - Can you leave that break in oil longer? Are you sure it has to be dumped so soon?
It might be good and smart to run the engine with that break in oil in there for a longer time, for a bunch of reasons.
This time we added 5 qts Rotella T 15w40 and a Quart of Comp Cams Break-in 10w30. The old oil came out grey, only after running for half an hour. They just loaded that 3/4 race cam with moly disulphide.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Every flathead that I've rebuilt (both Ford tractors and Dodge Power Wagons) I've used Rotella in them. It's a very good choice for most flathead engines.
We bought the 9L jug tonight, and he's going to buy a pail since it's so cheap.
Originally Posted By: fraso
Chrysler's oil recommendations[/url] remained virtually unchanged from the 1930s up to the 1960s. I would expect that the 1950 Dodge engine is very similar to the 1936-1942 Plymouth engines, which the factory recommended a 20 or 30-weight oil for summer-time driving.
Considering fact that the viscosity index of oils of that era were fairly low, any modern 10W-30 HDEO would have sufficient viscosity even for a modified flat-head engine. If you want the best oil for this engine, seeing as you're also in Canada, you should consider 0W-30 Esso XD-3 Extra.
My local parts store stocks 10w30 Rotella, which is apparently hard for most BITOGERs to find. Being in Canada means nothing. It was 15 degrees today (59 degrees). As you can see, our olympics got barely any snow. It stayed warm at sea level, where I am.
Heck, I ran 10w40 pennzoil in my explorer v6 last year, it ran fine. A 40 wt in an older flathead with tolerances that aren't as tight as a modern engine will work great.
mechjames - Can you leave that break in oil longer? Are you sure it has to be dumped so soon?
It might be good and smart to run the engine with that break in oil in there for a longer time, for a bunch of reasons.
This time we added 5 qts Rotella T 15w40 and a Quart of Comp Cams Break-in 10w30. The old oil came out grey, only after running for half an hour. They just loaded that 3/4 race cam with moly disulphide.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Every flathead that I've rebuilt (both Ford tractors and Dodge Power Wagons) I've used Rotella in them. It's a very good choice for most flathead engines.
We bought the 9L jug tonight, and he's going to buy a pail since it's so cheap.
Originally Posted By: fraso
Chrysler's oil recommendations[/url] remained virtually unchanged from the 1930s up to the 1960s. I would expect that the 1950 Dodge engine is very similar to the 1936-1942 Plymouth engines, which the factory recommended a 20 or 30-weight oil for summer-time driving.
Considering fact that the viscosity index of oils of that era were fairly low, any modern 10W-30 HDEO would have sufficient viscosity even for a modified flat-head engine. If you want the best oil for this engine, seeing as you're also in Canada, you should consider 0W-30 Esso XD-3 Extra.
My local parts store stocks 10w30 Rotella, which is apparently hard for most BITOGERs to find. Being in Canada means nothing. It was 15 degrees today (59 degrees). As you can see, our olympics got barely any snow. It stayed warm at sea level, where I am.
Heck, I ran 10w40 pennzoil in my explorer v6 last year, it ran fine. A 40 wt in an older flathead with tolerances that aren't as tight as a modern engine will work great.
Actually, being in Canada does mean something. Esso XD-3 Extra is not available in the USA.
Also, your original question asked for the best oil. Many people believe that Group IV (PAO) and Group V oils are true synthetics. 0W-30 XD-3 is a PAO oil along with 5W-30 Amsoil HDD. However, any HDEO will work fine in your Dodge.
Also, your original question asked for the best oil. Many people believe that Group IV (PAO) and Group V oils are true synthetics. 0W-30 XD-3 is a PAO oil along with 5W-30 Amsoil HDD. However, any HDEO will work fine in your Dodge.
- Status
