Can you still buy a car without Power Steering?

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Originally Posted By: ediamiam
I suspect most cars these days weight minimally 2600+ lbs (scion) hence the need for power steering. How light is a 1990 Miata?


My '49 coupe weighs a lot more than that and never needed power steering. Most early Chrysler A-bodies (Lancer, Valiant, Dart) didn't need PS and typically weighed a tick over 3000 lb.

Power steering is at least a good convenience at low speeds (parking maneuvers), but what I don't understand is power brakes in a car weighing less than 5000 lb. Just absolutely unnecessary, and power boosters muddy up the feel of the brake pedal even worse than power steering damps out the feedback through the steering wheel. The pedal effort doesn't even have to be any higher, what the manufacturers are really using power braking for is to reduce pedal TRAVEL. The very best feeling brakes I've ever driven are unassisted disks.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: ediamiam
I suspect most cars these days weight minimally 2600+ lbs (scion) hence the need for power steering. How light is a 1990 Miata?


My '49 coupe weighs a lot more than that and never needed power steering. Most early Chrysler A-bodies (Lancer, Valiant, Dart) didn't need PS and typically weighed a tick over 3000 lb.



Your 49 coupe with about 5 turns lock to lock has a much better mechanical advantage than newer cars with their 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. I will take good power steering and quick steering over old many turn manual steering any day. The best thing about the good old days is that they are the old days.
 
I guess they keep porking up. A 2010 Chevy Aveo runs almost the 2600#. That is about what my 92 Gramd Am did. Of course the real problem is that we are a society of wimps. Push a button for everything.
 
A 1990 Miata ran about 2200 pounds, IIRC. Power steering was an option.

My '88 Mercury Tracer (Mazda 323 copy) had manual steering and I loved it. Lots of feedback and a good feel that way. There's just something about being directly, mechanically connected... Even a something like a cable clutch is more fun than hydraulic. Well, until it's time to reach way down into the car's bowels and adjust it, that is.
 
My 1986 Honda Civic had manual steering. My folks 1989 Toyota Tercel hatch had manual steering. Both drove well, as they were very light.

I would have guessed that the last Toyota Tercel made would have been one of the last cars to have manual steering. They were one of the last to give up on carburators, as well.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: ediamiam
I suspect most cars these days weight minimally 2600+ lbs (scion) hence the need for power steering. How light is a 1990 Miata?


My '49 coupe weighs a lot more than that and never needed power steering. Most early Chrysler A-bodies (Lancer, Valiant, Dart) didn't need PS and typically weighed a tick over 3000 lb.



Your 49 coupe with about 5 turns lock to lock has a much better mechanical advantage than newer cars with their 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. I will take good power steering and quick steering over old many turn manual steering any day. The best thing about the good old days is that they are the old days.


Well, the 49 does use many turns and isn't set up for handling at all so its not the greatest example. But then there are 60s cars with fast-ratio manual boxes that are very fun to drive and have great steering feel. I'd trade maybe 1 extra turn lock-to-lock to get rid of the "is this thing actually connected to the road???" feel that modern cars are prone to have. But truth be told, I'm lazy enough now to like PS for parallel parking, if nothing else.

Power brakes, on the other hand... I still don't get that.
 
Tires were skinnier back in the day so they'd scrub less standing still and I wouldn't be surprised if the suspension geometry also helped manual steering.
 
One thing about older cars with manual steering, they usually had huge steering wheels to give the driver extra leverage, making turning the wheel much easier. My '56 Olds 88 had manual steering. I wish it had power steering. It would have been much more pleasant to drive. Especially when I had to parallel park!
 
I did an oil change to a Toyota Echo built without power steering. I don't remember the year, but I know that the first Echo was built in 2000.

Anyway, another reason the Miata would have manual steering when others would not is weight balance. The Miata is a RWD car in a size usually filled with FWD cars. That takes a few pounds off the front wheels.
 
Kio Rio is still available without it.

I owned a 84 Rabbit GTI and that had probably the best steering feel of any car I've ever driven..

Basically power steering decreases the feel and feedback of your steering rack but of course helps with the obese nature of most cars today because they are generally too heavy to steer at low speeds without it.

Another concession to the over complexity of todays cars.
 
I'm under the impression that power steering has actually contributed to fatalities. I regularly read in the local news where a driver was killed due to a roll-over or winding up down an embankment via over-correcting the steering (panic reaction).
 
Originally Posted By: Challenger71
I'm under the impression that power steering has actually contributed to fatalities. I regularly read in the local news where a driver was killed due to a roll-over or winding up down an embankment via over-correcting the steering (panic reaction).


Wouldn't surprise me at all. I know from my own experience when I had and over reaction to a curvy point on a twisting two lane road that it is VERY easy to over correct because of the overly low effort to turn the wheel at speed.
 
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