2 x E-Core (shocker) , 20k+ Fram, P Classic - Pics

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think they'll every be able to put enough pleats and ensure they don't widen out with the fiber end caps and the glue job it has. Best to fully support the media with a steel center tube with small holes.

Funny think about moisture in the oil. The GM vehicles these ecores are going on tend to had leaking intake gaskets. Hmm maybe some of those engine failures were not just from coolant contamination but filter media lodged in the engine? No one will ever know.
 
I thought i remember hearing the big "rave" that how this filter would out flow the traditional steel tube when it came out. Pfft...no matter
 
Yeah Champ claimed the nylon center cage allowed more flow and increased strength over a perforated steel tube.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Yeah Champ claimed the nylon center cage allowed more flow and increased strength over a perforated steel tube.


Well, it would and it is. You can stand on the thing. The flow thing is a moot point since the inlet:eek:utlet holes, while not restrictive, way smaller. You can put a barn door inside the thing and the oil could not care less.
 
I have been using Ecores for years, have an AC Delco pf1218 on my pickup right now, used many on my 99 Saturn as well (AC PF53).
I have cut many open and never had an issue with what I saw.
As Gary says, I have stood on the plastic cage and they will support my weight of 150 lbs. That being said, it does concern me seeing that picture. I'm not going to run out to the garage and throw out my entire stash, but it does give me pause.
 
I don't know, the ACDelcos weren't commonly made in ecore style till recently. If we can stand on them without breaking I quess now the Ecore that broke saw 150-200 psid. I haven't cut the Ecore open myself or use them anymore, but if you are willing to use them and cut them open I'd appreciate if you'd post the pics.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think they'll every be able to put enough pleats and ensure they don't widen out with the fiber end caps and the glue job it has. Best to fully support the media with a steel center tube with small holes.

Funny think about moisture in the oil. The GM vehicles these ecores are going on tend to had leaking intake gaskets. Hmm maybe some of those engine failures were not just from coolant contamination but filter media lodged in the engine? No one will ever know.


The ends of the pleats stay where they were assembled. In some cases, the pleats badly distort both were they packed tightly and more appearantly where they are spread out more. Uniformly tightly packed pleats would never flatten out like some pictures I have seen. They might still distort from excess moisture or something.

Better support from a different style center tube might prevent tears in the media under extreme conditions, but wouldn't prevent uneven pleats from flattening out.
 
I think Frams are the proof that even with thin "cheap" media and not many pleats and cardboard end caps, a smooth steel center tube backing with small holes for the most part prevents any large or significant blowouts.

The Ecore reduced the pleats and got rid of the steel center tube from the classic design. And now they would need more pleats than the classic to keep the plastic center tube as is. I don't think they will add the pleating. The whole ecore idea was about being cheaper, so it'd probably be cheaper to just add a metal style center tube than more media. I doubt they will do either.

Purolator have metal construction and lots of pleats. Has anyone seen one that so much as developed even a pinhole in the media?
 
2010_03_06_OF%20027%20%28Large%29.jpg


As others have said, and I agree ... too much unsupported area for a folded over pleat. It doesn't take much PSID on a relatively large unsupported area to cause the media to fail. And once the media was blown out, the oil flow through the blow out probably just kept eating the media away.

The ultimate "Bypass Plus" design.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx


The Ecore reduced the pleats ... from the classic design.


Where did you get the figures to back that?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't know, the ACDelcos weren't commonly made in ecore style till recently. If we can stand on them without breaking I quess now the Ecore that broke saw 150-200 psid. I haven't cut the Ecore open myself or use them anymore, but if you are willing to use them and cut them open I'd appreciate if you'd post the pics.


The AC Delco PF 53 used in my Saturn application has been Ecore for over 2 years. Many were switched over without much notice until recently.
 
An email I received from Champ labs says that their Ecore bypass is in the "15 to 18 range." That's fairly high in the first place, and I wonder how well their different bypass design works after sitting in hot oil for awhile. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I still hear a lot of people reving their motors when they first start up on cold days. Particularly older folks who grew up learning to start cars (prior to FI) when you needed to fiddle with the accelerator to get started on a cold morning. Add in cold temperatures, thick oil, a sticky bypass valve, maybe a bit of moisture in the oil, and wide gaps in the center cage and it is easy to imagine blowing out the media.
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
An email I received from Champ labs says that their Ecore bypass is in the "15 to 18 range." That's fairly high in the first place,

Well there's nothing wrong with a higher BP setting my self i like seeing that it insures more oil is filtered,but you need a good designed filter made right to insure there's not going to be any blow outs,witch includes steel center tube and thicker media,how hard is that?
 
Originally Posted By: labman
Originally Posted By: mechanicx


The Ecore reduced the pleats ... from the classic design.


Where did you get the figures to back that?


It is the filter study that compared the classic Champ ACDelco to the ecore.
 
I can't find the the exact comparison info of the same model classic vs ecore. I've seen it mentioned that the ecores have less media surfice area than the classic somewhere. This ecore has 52 pleats and 176 sq in surface area ecore.

I think the surface area and depth of the pleats would be just as important as the number of pleats as far as them opening up.
 
Actually the trend I have seen is less and less media in everything. I have been cutting open filters and recording the area for over 10 years. It might be interesting if somebody has current figures for conventional and Ecore PF 47 and PF52.

Brand-----P/N----Length width area Fits---endcaps---mfg--valves
Older data, 2000 ?
AC Delco--PF9-------102 2 1/2 255 77 LUV
STP-------S02856A---108 1 3/4 189 ''
Purolator L10193----105 1 3/4 184 ''
Power Flo SL14619----76 2 3/8 180 ''
Hastings--LF143------71 2 1/2 178 ''
ST--------ST3950-----98 1 3/4 171 ''
Fram------PH 3950----48-1 3/4--84 ''
2003 filters
Miata-----B6Y214302--69 1 3/4 121 1991 Roadster
AC Delco--PF2244G*---46 3-----138 02 Cavalier--------France
STP-------9018-------57 2 1/2 143 ''-----------------Korea
Purolator L15436-----52 2 1/2 130 ''-----------------Thailand
WIX 57082 Never got around to measuring it.

22 Aug 03 filters were a year or 2 old

ST--------ST3950-----84 1 3/4 147 77 LUV--------metal---------ADBV bypass
Purolator L10193**---76-----2 152 ''-------------card USA '' ''
Purolator L10193-----96-----2 192***''----------metal India '' far end
AC--------PF1177-----92 2 1/2 230 ''-------------card Canada ''
AC--------PF 47------56-----2 112 92 GrandAm----metal ''
AC--------PF 52------53 3 3/4 198 '' OS---------''----''
ST--------ST 3387A---46-----2--92 '' ''----------------USA ''
ST****----ST3950-----90---2.1 189 77 LUV--------Metal--------ADBV, bypass
ST 6-05---clicker '' 90 1 3/4 157 ''------------------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
Purolator 9-08 L10193 64 1.75 112 ''--------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''

2009 data

Purolator L10193-----75 1 3/4 131 ''-------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
MicroGuardGL10193----64---1.6 102 77 LUV--------metal USA ADBV, dome
STP-------SO3950-----73 1 3/4 128--''-----------metal USA ADBV, dome
AC--------PF457------64---2.3 147 02 Cavalier plastic USA no valves (Hengst)
Dynalube--D5436------59--2.25 133 02 Cavalier plastic China
*The AC, Hastings, and Fram all said PURFLUX L264A on the end of the plastic housing.
**Interesting 1 piece of rubber for both valves
***The media was noticable thinner than the others
****9-04 newer black case
*The AC, Hastings, and Fram all said PURFLUX L264A on the end of the plastic housing.
**Interesting 1 piece of rubber for both valves
***The media was noticable thinner than the others
****9-04 newer black case
 
That is hard to read but yeah I think the trend is less media area in most all filters. If I'm remembering correctly though Fram and ecore have less media than Purolators. Really though the media area isn't what I have against the ecore. It's the wide spacing of the center tube.
 
There may be less surface area in some filters, but some have a lot more depth to the media therefore adding dirt trapping ability, etc. Also, they claim they use better quality media, including synthetic types, to get better results. For example, look at the fuzzy media used in something like the Fram Extended Guard. On the other hand, I think in general modern engines run cleaner and cleaner, using better tolerances and better controls that eliminate the creation of many deposits, when everything is working properly. They also have very tightly sealed air cleaner boxes that let in a lot less crud. I can't believe how clean my wife's Chevy Impala keeps the oil with more than 65,000 miles on the clock. Even when I drain it at the end of an OCI it is only golden like pancake syrup, not black and cruddy like all oil was years ago. I'm not sure modern filters really have that much work to do!
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
That is hard to read but yeah I think the trend is less media area in most all filters. If I'm remembering correctly though Fram and ecore have less media than Purolators. Really though the media area isn't what I have against the ecore. It's the wide spacing of the center tube.


The Purolators I've seen (both Classic and PureONEs) are tightly packed with media. Hard to see how they could even get any more pleats in them if they tried. One reason, among many others why I've switched to Purolators.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top