Question about runaway acceleration...

[Durango]

Allot of people in the world are still very rudimentary in their thinking. Car makers has to undrstand when one introduces electronics TOO MUCH into peoples lives it's gonna stab you in the back.

The issue of runaway acceleration issues hasn't been handled yet. So far Toyota is only dealing with the gas pedal issue. This prolem seems to only occur I believe in the Prius and their flag ship models like Toyotas and Lexas. Remember as reported by the L.A. Times these issues were know by Toyotas themselves long ago when they first introduced computers to handle more of the engine issues.

Lastly remember what broke the big story was when Toyota was paying off crash victums under the table cuz they knew for many years that the roofs of most of the Toyotas fleet were weak. If your involved in a roll over crash the roofs will not protect you. They knew this!!!! Unfortunately the NTSB never caught this and allowed this to happen too. Both are at fault in a major way.

They should have test these system much more throughly before introducing them to the public.

 

[jazeo]

Reading some of this stuff reminded me, I bought a new Chevy Lumina 3.1 back in 1990 and with the cruise on if you applied the brakes it would disengage, but once you removed your foot from the brake pedal it would resume on it's own. All the other cars I've owned you have to press the resume button. I never questioned it and only had the car 6 months or so because it was plagued with problems. Does anyone know if this was normal or was it just one more of the many defects that car had?

 

[Rickey]

Reading some of this stuff reminded me how much safer I feel driving my GM automobiles.

I sure hope that they pay back the Feds soon.

Rickey.

 

[willix]

Stuck wot shouldn't happen. Its so rare. I would rather have granny be aware of the left turn signal being used properly. I would rather have my daughter keep both hands on the wheel & off the cell than have concerns about such a rare occurance. All cars have kill switches inches from the steering wheel already.

 

[Kestas]

I just got off the phone with oilbabe talking about this. She underscored how there are many people (herself included) that would be thrust into panic mode in a sudden acceleration event, and not remember even the simple steps to get the car out of the situation. With pushbutton start, people are going to blank out on what to do in a panic. With old people it'll be a nightmare.

She and I made an appointment to spend some time this weekend practicing a key shutoff (one-click back) and shift into neutral. All the cars she drives have key start.

I urge all people to practice emercency shutoff with the pushbutton starts.

DBW and pushbutton start may be a poor combination of technologies.

 

[VNTS]

Maybe what people should do with an 09 or 2010 impcated Toyota under warranty is bring them back to the dealership and park them and ask for a free loaner.

Then no one will get hurt

 

[eljefino]

I'm bashful to admit when I blew a brake line in my driveway at 2 mph my reaction was to throw it in park. click-click-click-click-CLUNK.

I've read of rev limiters that are low, like 4k rpm, when a car is sitting still but redline when rolling. I bet it would freak many out to hear their engine hitting the fuel shutoff: Vroom-stall-vroom-stall-vroom-stall going in Neutral for such an event. Folks still think they should try to save a piece of machinery, that isn't even going to suffer permanent damage, instead of getting the "survive yourself" mindset.

 

[Rickey]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
Maybe what people should do with an 09 or 2010 impcated Toyota under warranty is bring them back to the dealership and park them and ask for a free loaner.

Then no one will get hurt

What would the dealership loan them?

Seriously?

 

[willix]

That's a good Idea.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Rickey
What would the dealership loan them?

Seriously?

A Yaris, Prius, or Land Cruiser I guess...

 

[cchase]

And the answer to my question concerning just using brakes is...

you can just slam the brakes on and the car will stop.

Good article in the newest C&D that addresses just this issue.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

Quote:
Certainly the most natural reaction to a stuck-throttle emergency is to stomp on the brake pedal, possibly with both feet. And despite dramatic horsepower increases since C/D’s 1987 unintended-acceleration test of an Audi 5000, brakes by and large can still overpower and rein in an engine roaring under full throttle. With the Camry’s throttle pinned while going 70 mph, the brakes easily overcame all 268 horsepower straining against them and stopped the car in 190 feet—that’s a foot shorter than the performance of a Ford Taurus without any gas-pedal problems and just 16 feet longer than with the Camry’s throttle closed. From 100 mph, the stopping-distance differential was 88 feet—noticeable to be sure, but the car still slowed enthusiastically enough to impart a feeling of confidence. We also tried one go-for-broke run at 120 mph, and, even then, the car quickly decelerated to about 10 mph before the brakes got excessively hot and the car refused to decelerate any further.

 

[SteveSRT8]

There you go. Great article.

Even a 540 hp car can be stopped with the brake pedal.

But it seems Toyota is missing the software that most other manufacturers already have in place. Hitting the brake eventually pulls the throttle closed in almost any other DBW car.

I'm not so sure this can all be blamed on the pedal.

 

[Kestas]

But how did vacuum for the power brakes factor into this study? At full throttle there is no vacuum. Most cars with power brakes have a vacuum reserve for one stop. What about the panicked driver who perhaps pumped the brakes more than once? The full throttle part of this study should have been done with the vacuum disconnected to the power brakes.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
But how did vacuum for the power brakes factor into this study? At full throttle there is no vacuum. Most cars with power brakes have a vacuum reserve for one stop. What about the panicked driver who perhaps pumped the brakes more than once? The full throttle part of this study should have been done with the vacuum disconnected to the power brakes.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Norm Olt]

I recall the clutch cable breaking on our '88 CIVIC AWD wagon: actually had to drive home without a clutch. Throttle linkage can bind, a choke cable (remember those?) can stick, etc.

A broken brake line on an older car can be an interesting experience. Pedal to the floor and hope to God you can manipulate/modulate the parking brake & release, huh?

The current crop of whiney idiots go into full "panic mode" when they can't get a good signal on their G3 phone/device. No texting!!! No GPS ("Where am I?").

The battery (located in the trunk) goes dead: this means no power locks, no power trunk release, no "On Star", no way to get in to replace/charge the battery, etc. until after the tow...

Welcome to progress!

Cheers!

 

[benjamming]

So, if you wait until 120 mph with a WOT, you are doomed if relying solely on the brakes? Of course, there is no reason to rely solely on the brakes being that transmissions have a neutral but still.

 

[robbobster]

Originally Posted By: Norm Olt

The current crop of whiney idiots go into full "panic mode" when they can't get a good signal on their G3 phone/device. No texting!!! No GPS ("Where am I?").


A lady ran a stop sign over the weekend, sorta nearly T-Boned my truck. Fearing that she would hit me, she took her hands and off the wheel and covered her eyes. Never braked, never steered.

Not saying that people affected by the topic at hand are like this lady...but we share the road with people like this. I don't think she would have the wherewithal to put a car into neutral...or chew gum and walk at the same time.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Why can't the vehicles brakes overpower the engine, in a worst case scenario?

In most cases, the braking system itself CAN do so. But at WOT, you tend to lose vacuum to the power-assist booster, and ALL cars these days have power brakes. So its questionable as to whether or not the average driver can physically apply full braking pressure when the engine is in runaway, especially if they pump or pound the brake pedal repeatedly and deplete the vacuum in the accumulator. I think the test results published earlier in this thread aren't really representative, because in those results the driver KNEW he/she was doing a WOT brake test and just held the brake pedal down. If they'd pumped the pedal even once, they'd have lost a lot of braking ability! Remember, power brakes with no assist require 2 or 3 times the pedal effort that non-assisted brakes require because the mechanical pedal ratio is different. One of the big attractions of power brakes is not the so much the lighter effort, its the fact that you can make the effort light with reduced pedal travel.

 

[friendly_jacek]

While normally braking effort is 30 lbs for aggressive braking, 150 lbs effort is required to do the same without assist.

 

[PT1]

I have a 2008 Lexus ES350 and let me tell you that braking under WOT is very difficult in that car because I have tried it. The V6 in the car is more powerful than most would be led to believe. The answer is neutral and not just braking against the engine.