Close up on Toyota/CTS gas pedal.

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In the late 70s and mid 80s gm did not fix anything.
I had many instances where you would go back to the dealer 2 years later and the parts guy would say, "this one will break too' -they have not changed it yet"

But the GM execs still got the millions /mega bucks.
Head of toyota was making $400,000 I think
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Not really mechanical interference - the shim changes the pivot point under the lever that acts as a pedal friction damper.


The way I'm reading the information is that it is indeed a mechanical friction/binding issue. Look at the photo and the explanation that the shim decreases the mechanical friction at the contact points of the mechanism.
That explanation is unfortunately a journalist's interpretation.

The toothed device is a motion damper and is intended to cause friction so that the pedal has a tendency to stay where your foot puts it without being too sensitive. All the shim is going to do is reduce the force (or take to zero) with which the fixed side of the damper presses on the mating grooves on the pedal side of the damper. It's a clever design IMO but I suspect that it could use some thick grease instead.
It's not clear if this is to overcome friction from a corroded bushing, or because the damper wears somewhat and has too much friction.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I have a bad feeling in all of this, no reason just a hunch. I feel that they really don't have a 100% fool proof solution just yet, and this problem might just rear its ugly head again, especially for cars fixed early on in the recall. They have millions of cars to go through, and some how I think they're going to look for a cheap fix. I hope it doesn't bite them in the arse. Like I said a hunch and nothing more. I hope I'm wrong.

Me too,
I'm driving an '07 Tundra!
 
Well, if it does happen be sure and take some notes! Like does the pedal return properly and is there a check-engine light.

I suspect that all this media attention will bring plenty more unintended acceleration reports, genuine or otherwise.

You would think it odd that of all the functions an ECU has to do, it would pick this one to screw up and then still manage to fire off the plugs right on time!
 
Originally Posted By: RichR

I'm driving an '07 Tundra!


http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/02/01/toyota-tundra-crashes-unintended-acceleration/

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I don't believe Toyota's design of accelerator pedals has degraded so catastrophically bad as for this whole embarassment to have occured, nor do I think a frictional bind in the way illustrated would cause a pedal to stick for long amounts of time (tens of seconds or more) without showing any signs of sticking before.

This is an electronics issue, I think time will prove.
 
Me too. I don't think this shim is going to fix it. I think it's a knee jerk reaction and the need for immediate action on Toyota's part. Things are going to get REAL ugly for Toyota IF cars continue to run away after the "fix".
 
sunspots.

cell phones.

EMF.

As anyone can tell you who works on cars, sometimes just a ground wire can make crazy stuff happen.

DBW needs software to pull the throttle shut when you stomp the brake.

Most makes have it.

Toyotas don't.
 
They will be soon.

IMO, if we're going to start deploying DBW more and more I wonder why the automotive industry doesn't adopt ARINC standards instead of SAE standards. After all this is a life critical system, but when a electronic system fails dire results can happen. Even planes aren't immune to a flaky sensor or other I/O device. Look at what's going on over at Airbus...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
sunspots.

DBW needs software to pull the throttle shut when you stomp the brake.

Most makes have it.

Toyotas don't.


I don't think most makes have this.

There are situations when you want to be able to activate the brakes and throttle, especially if you have an open differential.
 
This seems to be the best analysis by far of the sticking CTS pedal issue - whether or not that is the only problem.

It appears that the susceptibility to moisture was not corrosion but referred to the plastic itself absorbing water and increasing the friction in the pedal damper components. Toyota's "shim" fix will only reduce or remove the functionality of the damper and although fix the sticking problem, will also adversely impact the ergonomics of the pedal action. The alternative Denso pedal does not seem to have these issues.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
...I'd love to disassemble one of these ECT and perform a FMEA and CAPA...


That's just what I was thinking. FTA this baby. The gas pedal is an interface with The Great Unkown (John Doe or Susie Q), and it could be difficult to pin down precisely what the Root Cause is, but you could probably determine that "X" part is not robust to "Y" unknown action by the user, in that case.

I would imagine that Toyota is working through subsystem-level dFMEA's and reviewing/re-creating Fault Trees as we speak. It can be tough work when you figure they have mechanical AND electrical hardware AND software systems playing together to make the car go!
 
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
The alternative Denso pedal does not seem to have these issues.


But its still providing inputs to the same flawed engine management software. I think we'll see that this is a non-fix in the long run. They'll be recalling again...
 
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Originally Posted By: nthach
They will be soon.

IMO, if we're going to start deploying DBW more and more I wonder why the automotive industry doesn't adopt ARINC standards instead of SAE standards. After all this is a life critical system, but when a electronic system fails dire results can happen. Even planes aren't immune to a flaky sensor or other I/O device. Look at what's going on over at Airbus...


I still think it will be a long time before stuff like steering and breaks don't have some mechanical linkage.
 
There are now BBW systems - but Mercedes and Bosch's attempt in the 2000s was an DISASTER. Mercedes had to save face via voluntary campaign to yank the Bosch Sensotronic DBC system for a conventional system.

Ironically, Toyota along with Denso and Aisin copied the Mercedes/Bosch system for consumption in the Prius.
 
Except you perform the FMEA's before you relase the part, to litlte to late. Guess their quality mantra is nothing more than a paper tiger because if they did the proper FMEA and tested these in real world in the cars they would have caught this 5 years ago LOL THey have pushed this under the carpet. Now they have a solution in 5 days?? Doubt it.

Of course they are running their current commercials about how great their quality is, enough to make one throw up in their mouth at Toyota and their joke quality.


Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
...I'd love to disassemble one of these ECT and perform a FMEA and CAPA...


That's just what I was thinking. FTA this baby. The gas pedal is an interface with The Great Unkown (John Doe or Susie Q), and it could be difficult to pin down precisely what the Root Cause is, but you could probably determine that "X" part is not robust to "Y" unknown action by the user, in that case.

I would imagine that Toyota is working through subsystem-level dFMEA's and reviewing/re-creating Fault Trees as we speak. It can be tough work when you figure they have mechanical AND electrical hardware AND software systems playing together to make the car go!
 
This is somewhat on the other side of the topic, but in the unlikely event you should ever find yourself behind the wheel of a car that is accelerating uncontrollably:

1. Use the brake. Brake hard. The car will stop. I don't care if you have the most powerful engine on the road, the brakes can overcome it!

2. Shift into neutral, especially if the brakes aren't stopping the car quickly enough.

3. As a last resort, and in the words of my great-grandfather, "Turn that son-of-a-b!tch off!"

When I hear the story of an off-duty cop who had his Lexus up to 120mph with a supposed unintended acceleration, I have to shake my head.
 
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