10K OCI factory fill - filter pics here
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HONDA OCI'S
- Thread starter MADMIKE
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We have been running 6-8,000 mile OCIs on our 02 Accord V6, using Pennzoil dino, LC and a little 132. Getting very good UOAs. Terry thinks I could stretch to 10K miles. We change the oil filter each time. I'm not an engineer or expert but I can't see why a Honda owner would want to take the risk of running an oil filter for two changes when they cost just a few dollars.
What do you expect your filter to fill up with?
We're measuring wear metals and sillicon in parts per MILLION. In fact, wear metals + sillicon typically add up to less than 200 PPM even in cars running extended intervals.
Look at the size of your filter!
Quick math pop quiz: Calculate the size of your oil filter versus the volume of your motor oil multiplied by the fraction that 200 PPM represents.
We're measuring wear metals and sillicon in parts per MILLION. In fact, wear metals + sillicon typically add up to less than 200 PPM even in cars running extended intervals.
Look at the size of your filter!
Quick math pop quiz: Calculate the size of your oil filter versus the volume of your motor oil multiplied by the fraction that 200 PPM represents.
Not all Honda OCI are this long. My 05 Pilot calls for 7500 normal and 3750 severe.
My '03 CRV manual calls for 5000 mile OCIs and 10000 mile filter changes. Exactly half the amounts discussed on this post. Certainly nobody really thinks they have improved the technology by 100% in 3 years. My guess is that some bean counter looked at the engineers' recommendations, then looked at the spreadsheets provided by Honda marketers who want their products to be seen as nearly maintenance-free, made some abtruse calculations, and came up with the 10000/20000 recommendation.
Why take that risk? Even the most expensive synthetics don't cost THAT much, relative to the pain in the neck and expense of having a ruined engine. And as long as a quart of decent dino is under $3, how hard can it be to change it every 5000 miles? I change my Honda's oil every 4000 miles and change the filter every time. Maybe that is overkill, but if so it makes no difference to me. I sleep well, knowing that if the car breaks down, it certainly will not be because the motor wasn't cared for.
Why take that risk? Even the most expensive synthetics don't cost THAT much, relative to the pain in the neck and expense of having a ruined engine. And as long as a quart of decent dino is under $3, how hard can it be to change it every 5000 miles? I change my Honda's oil every 4000 miles and change the filter every time. Maybe that is overkill, but if so it makes no difference to me. I sleep well, knowing that if the car breaks down, it certainly will not be because the motor wasn't cared for.
No how, no way. The factory fill on my 2004 Civic VP went bye-bye at 1500 miles. M1 5W-30 went in with 6K mile OCI's and Pure One filters. 32K miles now and no issues. To me it's cheap insurance and I feel better.
I do!
The newer ULEV and PZEV engines run much cleaner than the previous designs.
You're missing on the point that even though your car is only 3 years old, its engine design is much older than that.
The new generation of Civics get a brand new engine that is completely redesigned and much more advanced than the engine in your CRV.
[ February 07, 2006, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: vad ]
What kind of a risk do you take if the UOA's show that the oil and the engine is fully capable of running the extended OCI's?
If it's all about better feelings, "cheap insurance", and sound sleep at night then why do you guys keep coming to this board?
You're wasting your time!
Owning an oil extractor for a while makes one more comfortable with leaving the filter on during an OC. Leaving the filter on makes most sense when using a cheap dino. $8 oil change, fluid only, not a ~bad~ idea. If doing a full OC with pricey synth, that's different, change the filter too. My 1998 Honda gets a fresh filter and Mobil 1 0w-30 every 6 months since we do all long trips...maybe 8000-9000 miles total. I'm looking at a new Honda and will probally do much the same.
Doing it even as I write this response. Your statement is correct.
I ran 10,000 miles on factory fill (conventional oil!!) . The second oil change(10,000 to 20,000) was done with Mobil One 0w20. I changed the oil (Mobil One 0w20) AND filter at the 20,000 mile mark.
My time and mileage horizon for this Honda Civic is a min of 14 years and min of 250,000 miles. I am now at 24,000 miles. It runs like the proverbial top. I get between 37-41 mpg in daily commute. Will see you in 226,000 miles! Or I can report along the way. If anyone wants to do an UOA on a pop basis (to try to certify Honda's being nuts?!) and publish it on this web site, let me know
[ February 07, 2006, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
I ran 10,000 miles on factory fill (conventional oil!!) . The second oil change(10,000 to 20,000) was done with Mobil One 0w20. I changed the oil (Mobil One 0w20) AND filter at the 20,000 mile mark.
My time and mileage horizon for this Honda Civic is a min of 14 years and min of 250,000 miles. I am now at 24,000 miles. It runs like the proverbial top. I get between 37-41 mpg in daily commute. Will see you in 226,000 miles! Or I can report along the way. If anyone wants to do an UOA on a pop basis (to try to certify Honda's being nuts?!) and publish it on this web site, let me know
[ February 07, 2006, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
vad, Whoa hoss. There are MANY reasons to come to this site. One of them is simple curiosity. Another is scientific pragmatism. The two are not mutually exclusive.
That was a good point about the age of the engine design. Still, I have to wonder why they doubled the numbers rather than, say, extended them by 1 or 2 thousand miles. Doesn't that seem somewhat arbitrary? Is it a coincidence?
That was a good point about the age of the engine design. Still, I have to wonder why they doubled the numbers rather than, say, extended them by 1 or 2 thousand miles. Doesn't that seem somewhat arbitrary? Is it a coincidence?
I'm with vad. Too much "conspiricy theory" attitudes in the light of scientifically supported extended oil changes. Yes, Honda engines can run just fine on mineral oil and 10000 mile changes. Arbitrary it isn't. Factual it is. Do an oil analysis if you want to be sure. Otherwise, it's just beating a dead horse to wring one's hands over the "feeling" that the poor engine is going to croak prematurely.
My 2006 Honda Ridgeline V6 VTEC engine calls for OCI by the OLM only. No mileage standards are giving either for normal or severe conditions. The manual does say, however, that if you put so few miles on that the OLM never shows a service due notice, go ahead and change oil once a year. The OLM is calibrated for dino.
Essentially you hit the highlights of the issue. The OLM is probably indeed calibrated for conventional oil. To further put some parameters to it it is calibrated for 5w20 to Ford and Honda standards.
While this is not a Ford or Toyota type article it explains how the majority of OLM's work.
"Oil Life Monitor Stripped Bare"
(reprinted from General Motors)
http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/fun_stuff/may2002/page002.html
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