PC won't boot up with slave hard drive

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I am attempting to retrieve some data off an old HDD. The drive is from an old Windows 98 system. I set the old drive as the slave, but when I try to boot my Vista PC, it won't boot. When I disconnect the old HDD, the Vista system boots up fine. Any ideas what's wrong?
 
is the master a western digital drive?

they have 3 settings SINGLE and master and slave.

master and single are different (unlike seagate etc)


instead disconnect your CD-rom drive and set the second hard drive as master.

or you can futz with the jumper on your master hdd
 
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I went into BIOS and changed the boot order of the drives. Now the Vista system boots up fine, but I can't see the old HDD in Windows Explorer...
 
I'm throwing in the towel. I'm 99% sure I already have everything that I needed from the old drive, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about the BIOS to change any setting beyond the boot order of the drives.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.
 
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
Does your motherboard support windows 98?


I have no idea. If I had to guess, I'd say no; but I don't know.
 
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
I don't know either but can vista read W-98 fat32. USB Fat32 can be read with Vista NTFS.


Yes it can. Often, on some older systems, the hard drive gets picked up or configured a certain way in the BIOS. When you put that same drive in a newer system, the BIOS does not configure the drive in the same manner, making the drive inaccessible.
 
In my experience, neither XP nor Windows 7 needs the drive to be configured in BIOS to detect it and allow you to access it. The same goes for Linux. The only reason the drive would need to be configured in BIOS is if you wanted to be able to boot from it.

The person who is having trouble getting their Vista box to detect the drive might try unhooking the DVD/CD-R drive(s) from the secondary channel and connecting the drive there. Then see if Vista detects it.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
In my experience, neither XP nor Windows 7 needs the drive to be configured in BIOS to detect it and allow you to access it. The same goes for Linux. The only reason the drive would need to be configured in BIOS is if you wanted to be able to boot from it.

The person who is having trouble getting their Vista box to detect the drive might try unhooking the DVD/CD-R drive(s) from the secondary channel and connecting the drive there. Then see if Vista detects it.


I've had it happen with XP and Vista.

The cause:

The old BIOS was configuring the drive as LARGE, whilst the BIOS on the new motherboard was auto-configuring the drive as LBA.

The drive would detect, but none of the information was accessible. Switching the BIOS on the new board to access the drive via LARGE fixed the issue.

It is far from a common occurrence, but it DOES happen.
 
"Switching the BIOS on the new board to access the drive via LARGE fixed the issue."

OVERK1LL, can you please explain to me how this is done? Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Well first things first:

Do you still have the old computer the drive came out of and does it work?


I fired the old machine up a couple of months ago, and it was unstable. So maybe the hard drive isn't up to the task.

FWIW, I can see the old drive in Device Manager on the Vista system, but I can't do anything else with it.
 
Does it show a partition as existing on the drive in Computer Management under Administrative Tools?

I asked about the old system because you could go into the BIOS on it to check to see what mode the drive was being accessed under. This could be LBA, CHS or LARGE.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Does it show a partition as existing on the drive in Computer Management under Administrative Tools?...


I'll take a look at it tomorrow and get back to you. I'm nursing a sinus headache at the moment, and don't want to make it any worse by fussing with that drive tonight.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

The drive would detect, but none of the information was accessible. Switching the BIOS on the new board to access the drive via LARGE fixed the issue.


Windows 98/XP/Vista/7 does not use INT13H services to access the drive. After it boots, it could not care less what mode is set in the BIOS to access the drive, it talks directly to the hardware.

The following talks about NT 4.0, but verifies what I said:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q224526/

I have a laptop that doesn't support larger than 8GB drives due to a BIOS limitation. To work around it, I installed Windows 98 on an 8GB partition at the start of a 40GB drive (necessary to make sure that any system files necessary for the boot process remain accessible), then made several more partitions to use the rest of the space. Said partitions were inaccessible from DOS, but Windows 98 had no problem getting to them.

This is similar to the way you create a boot partition in Linux that is within the first 504MB of the drive, then it doesn't matter what kind of translation the BIOS does, it still boots because the kernel boot files are stored in an area of the drive that is accessible no matter whether the BIOS is set to LBA, CHS, or LARGE. After the kernel is loaded, the BIOS translation settings are moot.

Before I started doing that, yes, I had problems where a Linux drive wouldn't always boot anymore when moved from one motherboard to another. Those problems were why I started setting up the boot partition like that. After I did that, never a problem again.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

The drive would detect, but none of the information was accessible. Switching the BIOS on the new board to access the drive via LARGE fixed the issue.


Windows 98/XP/Vista/7 does not use INT13H services to access the drive. After it boots, it could not care less what mode is set in the BIOS to access the drive, it talks directly to the hardware.

The following talks about NT 4.0, but verifies what I said:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q224526/

I have a laptop that doesn't support larger than 8GB drives due to a BIOS limitation. To work around it, I installed Windows 98 on an 8GB partition at the start of a 40GB drive (necessary to make sure that any system files necessary for the boot process remain accessible), then made several more partitions to use the rest of the space. Said partitions were inaccessible from DOS, but Windows 98 had no problem getting to them.

This is similar to the way you create a boot partition in Linux that is within the first 504MB of the drive, then it doesn't matter what kind of translation the BIOS does, it still boots because the kernel boot files are stored in an area of the drive that is accessible no matter whether the BIOS is set to LBA, CHS, or LARGE. After the kernel is loaded, the BIOS translation settings are moot.

Before I started doing that, yes, I had problems where a Linux drive wouldn't always boot anymore when moved from one motherboard to another. Those problems were why I started setting up the boot partition like that. After I did that, never a problem again.


I am aware of the article, but I imagine it is due to hardware or software limitations, or how things are translated... as I HAVE had issues (I'm seriously not hallucinating here) where the scenario I depicted has occurred.

It is similar to the "Windows XP doesn't care if your BIOS doesn't support drives over 137GB, it will still see the entire drive" scenario.

The vast majority of the time... It doesn't matter. But there have been times (and I honestly don't know the cause, perhaps it is a controller limitation? I haven't bothered researching it) where a 160GB drive for example STILL shows as 137GB in the partition creation screen for setting up Windows. It takes a BIOS update to fix the problem in this instance.

Yet on other systems, with the same problem, Windows setup shows the entire drive.


EDIT:

I wonder, if perhaps due to a controller limitation or a compatibility issue (resolvable with a driver?) that there are scenarios where the OS IS in fact forced to access the drive through the BIOS and forced to use whatever translation method it is setup for.

I honestly don't know other than I've had the issue on more than one occasion and the scenario typically involves a drive from an older system, usually Windows 98, being put in a newer Windows XP box.

The partitions are visible. In some cases the data is too. But none of the data is actually usable (is corrupt when you try to view it) but this is fixed by matching the BIOS settings to what they were for the drive in the old system.
 
In theory, you should be able to plug a 500GB drive into the oldest ISA IDE controller that you can find and access the full capacity of the drive so long as the OS has it's own disk controller drivers. So I do not believe it's a controller issue. Incidentally, I'd do this experiment, but finding a version of Linux stripped down enough to run on a 386 with 4MB of RAM might be a challenge these days...

Perhaps the 160GB drive still had partition information on it which caused Windows to believe that it is only a 137GB drive? Maybe zeroing the drive out would fix it?

It would surprise me to find that Windows (apart from 95/98) is capable of accessing devices with INT 13H after it has booted.

In the Windows 98 scenario I mentioned, I believe I had to boot the laptop with Linux and create my partitions above 8GB with Linux FDISK because the FDISK that comes with Windows 98 only saw an 8GB drive.

Another possibility, in the 160GB drive showing up as 137GB scenario, is that Windows is trying to prevent you from creating a 160GB partition, part of which is inaccessible to the Windows boot loader. I'm not sure how much this matters, but there is a point in the boot process at which it transitions from accessing the drive via INT13H to accessing it directly. Should one of the files it needs to access during the INT13H phase of things get placed beyond the 137GB limit, it will not boot. This is analogous to the situation I had with Linux.

In that situation, you could create two partitions, one of which is wholly below the 137GB limit and which you install Windows on, and one which you create via disk management after Windows is installed.
 
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