API SM to SN....no real change?

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I don't know the details off-hand, but from what I've seen, the change from API SM to SN will not be a 'large' one as far as oil formulations/specs are concerned.

Additive levels haven't changed at all, ZN is still =/>800; PH is still =/>600; NOAK is still >15%. Changes are minor, and involve additive volatility, and friction reduction for FE.

So, API SN oils are going to 'look' the exact same as SM. If you look at the PDS of the new Pennzoil 'Ultra' Syn, the specs are almost the EXACT same as PP....you can't really tell a difference.

You could often easily tell an API SL oil from a SM - additive levels were lower, SM oils were often slightly thinner than SL versions, and additive packs changed. With SN, I don't think you're going to see this, the oils will look the exact same.

I know the changes that have been made to the requirements are subtle and necessary, but I'm not sure we really need a new API category.....your thought?
 
Who cares if we can't tell them apart from spec sheets? Spec sheets were never a good way to compare oils anyway. That's one reason why we have API categories in the first place.
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I think lower additive volatility and lower friction are great changes that could benefit everyone. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new oils will perform.
 
I thought there were also increases in high heat deposits, and TBN retention on ethanol?

I agree that the VOA's might not look much different. But, there appears to be several small changes that all seem relevant to next generation of small displacment, DI and forced induction engines running on E10 and requiring high fuel economy numbers.

What I'll find interesting, is the difference between DEXOS and SN.
 
I guarantee you none of us can tell any real differences by just looking at spec sheets and msds sheets. They certainly don't tell the whole story. The new GF-5/API SN oils will have better deposit control and better wear (anti-wear additives) and friction modifiers. There are chemicals/additives in there that won't show up on your average VOA or UOA.

Please give me the newest SWILL, I want it.
 
I wonder if the recent formulation change in Pennzoil and Quakerstate (boost in boron) were in prep of the change to SN?
 
I always welcome the change to a new standard because the oils are definitely improving with each step. I know a few of you will say "what about the drop in ZDDP over the years?" but I think that if you look at the UOAs you can see that the latest oils have no problem in terms of engine wear, so the reduction of ZDDP is not causing our engines to wear faster (with the exception being high performance engines with flat tappet cams, but those engines should not be running an off the shelf oil anyhow) They are obviously coming up with a lot of new ways to provide friction reduction inside an engine other than ZDDP!

I think each new standard makes the oil companies formulate their oils to be a lot cleaner, and engine cleanliness is an important thing to consider! I do believe that we're going to get to a point in the very near future where it's going to be nearly impossible to have sludge buildup in an engine unless it's severely neglected (or has a coolant leak)

I'm just glad I don't stockpile huge amounts of oil for my car anymore (I've got enough PP for this year's 2 oil changes only) as I'm very eager to try out the new SN rated Pennzoil Ultra when it comes out.
 
Any move to go longer on the same oil is a step in the right direction. I'd like to think it's more green, even if its a few more bucks an oil change. If the engines that tend to need drains more often can hold back longer and stay clean then that's great. Sludge and wear are two very different things.

Does e10 really change UOA compared to regular fuel? I can understand E85 as it's so much more of the stuff.
 
The improvements will be found in high temperature deposit control and better friction reduction. Most of your current synthetics won't change much as they already do a good job at that.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I guarantee you none of us can tell any real differences by just looking at spec sheets and msds sheets. They certainly don't tell the whole story. The new GF-5/API SN oils will have better deposit control and better wear (anti-wear additives) and friction modifiers. There are chemicals/additives in there that won't show up on your average VOA or UOA.

Please give me the newest SWILL, I want it.



Now that is cool....
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I'm looking forward to see how the API SL and SJ oils I stashed up on perform this summer v. the ILSAC GF-4 swill.
No GF4 stand up to my hard driving in my yaris which is only tuned to only a liitle over 1lb-ft/cuin at 5300rpm (id est, equal to a hot 350HP 350v8 for specific output). At least the 1nz has a good sump volume per swept area.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
I always welcome the change to a new standard because the oils are definitely improving with each step. I know a few of you will say "what about the drop in ZDDP over the years?" but I think that if you look at the UOAs you can see that the latest oils have no problem in terms of engine wear, so the reduction of ZDDP is not causing our engines to wear faster (with the exception being high performance engines with flat tappet cams, but those engines should not be running an off the shelf oil anyhow) They are obviously coming up with a lot of new ways to provide friction reduction inside an engine other than ZDDP!


It depends on the engine, and we do know that higher ZDDP can result in higher wear metals seen in UOAs but less actual engine wear because of the limited range of particle sizes detected in UOAs.
 
Originally Posted By: ted s
make no sense to keep having new standards , it just results in higher prices.


yeah, it seems to be not too different from textbook makers changing editions all the time
 
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
I just hope the SM oils start selling a huge discounts when SN appears.


Same here! With my 3 cars, lawn/snow epuipment and my daughters car, I will be looking for some great closeout deals on oil. My daughter is putting on about 2500 miles per month as she uses her car for work(local driving). I want to keep her car Fatherized at all times(belts, hoses, battery, tires, brakes, plugs, all fluids).
 
I've notice an increase in the price of oil with the new SN introduction on Dino oils.

PYB has increased at some retail outlets that, historically, have high prices for everyday items.

I was in Walgreen's Pharmacy, waiting to pick up some Rx's, and wandered/browsed over at the oil section. I know that Walgreen's is not a place to buy oil, except in an emergency or if they are having an oil sale, but out of curiosity I wanted to see how much of an increase they have since they now carry SN oils for PYB and Formula Shell.

What an increase in price! PYB is now selling for $5.79 a quart and Formula Shell is $4.99 a quart. These are API SN, GF-5 rated oils in 05W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40!!!

That's a huge increase since the clearance sale last August when you could get Formula Shell SM GF-4 @ $1.99 a quart. Once they ran out of Formula Shell you could substitute PYB for the same $1.99 a quart.

Holy Mole.....talk about major increases in oil prices.....I hope this is not in store for us when Wallmart, Advance Auto and Auto Zone run out of SM GF-4 oils and only carry the new SN GF-5 oils!

There must be some "synthetic" in the new formulation for API SN, GF-5, if the price has shot up this high! Or else the add packs must contain a lot more additives than the prior versions.
 
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