Dont use heavier then rec'd oil in FORD VCT cars

[Kestas]

I own a 98 ZX2 with a VCT system, and I too have been dinged by using heavy oil. I use 5W-30 during the winter (no problem), but when I switched to 20W-50 one summer, the engine ran horribly (especially mornings), started stalling and setting a "cam sensor" code. The problem went away when I switched to 5W-30, and never came back. This issue is well known in the TeamZX2 forum.

But my car is specified for 5W-30. Grade 5W-20 wasn't popular back in 1998. I would like to believe the Zetec engine was qualified with 5W-30, and that it was thoroughly and successfully tested using this oil.

 

[moosestang]

What car are you specifically referring to? Was this your car?

I've been running 5w30 in my 2006 mustang gt for 6,000 miles now. It's mobil 1 5w30, so a little thinner than conventional 5w30, but I fail to see how a 30w is going to be more gunky than a 20w.

Does it even make a difference in oil pressure?

 

[moosestang]

Why would you put 20w50 in a car that is spec'd for 5w30? My air-cooled vtwin specs 20w50 for christ's sake, that's because it runs freaking hot!

 

[moosestang]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
The same vehicles 'that have to have 5w20' for a variety of reason in the US are shipped overseas and Ford recommends something different. You can't rely upon US manuals as by law per CAFE only one oil can be recommended, so look in a non-US for the range of oils that you'll find in the rest of the world.


http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/132772-absolute-best-oil-for-new-f150.html

Down under Ford Australia only recommends 10w30 here for the 5.4l 3V motor.
The motor is imported from USA to fit in the Ford Falcon.
It still has 5w20 on the oil filler cap, so you would think if its ok to use 10w30 here it should be ok in the USA



http://www.300cforums.com/forums/austral...-5w-20-a-4.html

"Just ordered 300C Hemi. 2006 user manual manual specifies 5W30 oil.
2005 user manual specifies 5W20 oil.
I'm going with 5W30 oil because it's in the latter publication. Also 5W30 is easier to get in Oz."




You'd think the thread would have ended with this post.[sigh]

 

[moosestang]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I think almost all of the Ford line up now calls for 5W20, with possibly a few exceptions. My point was a lot of people feel that the 5W30 is better and go against the mfg suggestions, and could get burnt in cases like this.


The GT500's use 5w50 and have vvt. Maybe it has magically gunk free vvt.

 

[1sttruck]

"I own a 98 ZX2 with a VCT system, and I too have been dinged by using heavy oil. I use 5W-30 during the winter (no problem), but when I switched to 20W-50 one summer, the engine ran horribly (especially mornings), started stalling and setting a "cam sensor" code. The problem went away when I switched to 5W-30, and never came back. This issue is well known in the TeamZX2 forum."

30W50 is used in VCT systems in Australia. A grade up shouldn't matter, but two would probably warrant higher ambient temps.

http://www.fordforums.com/f538/mobil1-vct-engine-43343/

Does anyone with an (AU) XR6 VCT engine run Mobil 1?

Reason why I ask is because the oil cap says to use 30w-50w oil only. Mobil1 is 5w-50w.

Running a thinner oil would perhaps cause some extra engine noise, but otherwise I can't think of too many other problems it would cause.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1174752&postcount=99

Remember, these cars were designed to function in sub-zero weather with a 20 weight oil and in 100 degree weather with a 20 weight oil. With over a 100 degree temperature spread, that 20 weight oil's viscosity spread is much greater than the difference between a 20 weight vs. a 30 or 40 weight. If the VCT were really as sensitive as some make it out to be, Ford would have required an oil weight change based on temperature/season.

Here's another point to consider--anyone think the Mustang Challenge cars are running a 20 weight oil? Stock engine, VCT enabled, and based on a phone conversation with FRPP they are running their oil of choice, typically a 40 weight. These cars are seeing more abuse than most of ours ever will and in a spec racing series each team is looking to maximize HP/TQ from the stock parts.

By the way, I was getting noticable shearing of the Motorcraft 5w-20 after a single track weekend (Blackstone analysis). THAT is what prompted me to look into this issue a little more. The last thing I want is a spun bearing.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: moosestang
The GT500's use 5w50 and have vvt. Maybe it has magically gunk free vvt.


no they dont. they do not have variable timing of any kind. i have seen these and GT Supercar motors taken apart numerous times, and there are no variable cam timing phasers of any kind.

 

[mechtech2]

I am conversant in Ford's Zetec engines, and their VCT is fine with 5-30.
On other Ford VCTs it should be the same, as 5-30 is not much different except at high temperatures, when it is thinner than 5-20 in normal temps.

 

[theedge67]

I have a 2006 Mustang GT, and I have run multiple oil analysis on both 5W20 and 5W30 and the 5W30 shows a consistently lower metals content in every category. If the 5W30 was causing the VCT system to wear out prematurely, wouldn't this show up in the oil analysis?

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: theedge67
I have a 2006 Mustang GT, and I have run multiple oil analysis on both 5W20 and 5W30 and the 5W30 shows a consistently lower metals content in every category. If the 5W30 was causing the VCT system to wear out prematurely, wouldn't this show up in the oil analysis?


Not necessarily. Some of the VCT's will run fine and others throw codes and fail. It has more to do with the cold temp range than the hot.

 

[windeye]

Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
All I want to do is follow what is in the manufacturers' manual. If it calls for 5W-20, SM/GF-4 API Certified, then I follow it, if it calls for 5W-30, SM/GF-4 API Certified, then I follow it.

I follow all of the miles/months needed for services, and get them done by the dealer on time so that the mfgr knows that I followed their recommendations on my car.

I keep all of my maintenance records, and should I have any problems with the manufacturer about warranty issues, that repairs will not be covered, then I will keep the original invoices showing what was done when, mileage, and what oil was used, etc, etc., then I will make copies for the dealer and the mfgr for their records, then any repairs will be covered under the warranty.

That way there is written proof for all to see.

Many years ago, when I had engine problems with my Ford F-150, I took my truck in for repairs, and after the dealer saw my written records and contacted Ford, the warranty was honored and it cost them a new motor.

Same thing happened, when I had a Cadillac Seville, too, the dealer was all excited about how much I was being billed for some serious engine and transmission repairs, and was amazed at how fast I signed the order to have the repairs done, then, bingo, I told them it was under General Motors Warranty, they went and checked it out, and lo and behold, everything was under warranty, they changed the order for repair showing that it was under warranty, and it cost me $0.00. GM was stuck with the repairs and they honored the warranty.

You can do that if you know for sure you have a good and honest dealer that does oil change for you. But, even if you do, when you are out of warranty, and your car is worn, then no one but yourself would foot the repair bill.

I've been using a "reputable" dealer for a long time, and my latest find is that their OEM oil filter is not any better than FRAM, which has paper endcaps, and the mechanic who did the oil change did not bother to replace the oil filter. He did not rotate my tires when I asked to but svr writer claims he did.

Problem is that we need use our own brain to think what's making sense. Truth is every car must accept multiple oils. They may not state it in the owner's manual, but it's definitely in the workshop manual.

 

[bepperb]

"Truth is every car must accept multiple oils. They may not state it in the owner's manual"

They cannot state it in the owners manual. In order to use 5w-20 for cafe fuel mileage calculation, it must be the only recommended oil.

There is a letter from the EPA to Ford/Honda laying this all out, that has been on this site before.

 

[modularv8]

I know this is an old thread, but I have a Ford 5.4l 3v (F150) and have done extensive research on this question. I found quite a bit, but the following seems to be the important issues in regard to running 5w20 vs 5w30

- 5.4l uses roller lifter w/hydraulic lash adjusters
- The VCT uses "metered" orifices channeling oil around it and through it to feed the lubrication of timing chain/guide. There are also several other metered orifices in the head that feed the VCT.
- The oil pump in these modulars is a very high volume (30% +) than that used on standard V8.
- The 5.4l 3v is a high oil pressure system (75 psi @ 2000 rpms).
- The oil sump is 7 quarts to support oil cooling and high flow rate.
- The water thermostat is set @ 180 F, 15 degrees cooler than the previous generation 5.4l engines. 15 degrees F cooler puts a 20 weight at about a 30 weight oil at this temperature range.
- The main/rod bearings are of a tighter tolerance and are more circular than elliptical to diminish bleed off.

Some anecdotal evidence: I live in south central Texas where (100F+) is almost everyday during the summer and I have used the truck for towing and have never seen the temperature gauge past the central mark. In fact it sits there no matter what the temperature is outside. But I can hear the big clutch fan pulling lots of air under the hood, so it keeps the operating temperature in check (others claim with a gauge that it never reaches 195F).

I hear alot about Ford recommending other weights for same exact vehicle in other countries. I searched every Ford market through-out their global operations site for use of this same exact engine and found only one place where I could download their owner's manual. Venezuela sells the same F-150 and their manual recommends 5w-20 but does say 5w30 can be used if 5w20 is not available.

I think the modular V8's are designed to run on 5w20. The problem we have is we have never seen presented a side-by-side comparison of the same engine evaluated after same exact conditions at 200k+ miles to see if any differences due to the different weights.

I do know that the oem's have specialized equipment and procedures to evaluate the design of each engine to perform to design specs (oil specs).

My concern with running 5w30 is the high pressure/high volume oil system in these engines might produce too much pressure with a 30 weight. And the fact the timing chain is lubricated from a metered orifice (oil passage)to it, might diminish the flow to it. The hydraulic roller lifters seem logically to also depend on the oil viscosity. The main/rod bearings would be the place I think most people are concerned about, but these have been addressed with a different shape and tolerance.

So like the Venezuelan Ford Manual says 5w30 can be run but it won't be optimal for performance and durability. We know 5w20 is better performance, but we question the durability. I think Ford knows that some small markets may not have 5w20 and its better to run something than nothing but Ford doesn't suggest anything greater than 5w30 in 5.4l 3v triton engine. I think the "metered orifices" could impede flow with anything heavier than 20 weight, therefore impacting "optimal" durability.

Having said all that, I once had a '93 Ford Escort where it was abused on a daily basis. As a young college student, I used it to deliver pizzas (80+ engine starts per night) ragged on it hard to get it there on time. Got up to 70 mph accelerating in 2nd gear. Everyone that drove were impressed by the engines power (1.9l). Didn't change oil for up to 15k+ miles. Eventually, a hydraulic lifter would collapse. I open the valve cover and replace it for ~$10 (part from dealer) and keep going. There was tar under the valve cover. Anyway, the car ran like a champ, never smoked, always strong until it reached 256k+ miles when a an F-350 with a huge brush guard rear-end the [censored] out of it sending it into the rear of another truck. It had to be extracted from the truck in front and it looked like an accordian. Anyway, the cop asked if it would start to get it out of traffic. There was fluid all over the road and steam from the hood. But it cranked and sputtered over to the curb for one last time.

So there you have it, maybe I was lucky with the car but I think these machines are built tough and it lasted with all that abuse. It's hard to imagine that we worry about our vehicle when we take good care of it. Just change the oil using whatever the manufacturer recommends. No matter what we do, it's going to wear out.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Great post Modularv8
Good research and report.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Great post Modularv8
Good research and report.