Saturns & Exxon/Mobil System Cleaner

[fraso]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Spartuss
Auto-RX it.


That won't do anything. Auto-RX doesn't work, at least it didn't work on my SL2.


From what I've read elsewhere here and on the Saturn Fans Forum, Auto-Rx doesn't seem to have much impact on reducing oil consumption in a Saturn. Has anyone tried Exxon System Cleaner in a Saturn S-series yet to dissolve the carbon build-up in the oil rings?

 

[Familyguy]

I've read about some success with MMO soaks on slimed rings on the old Saturn 1.9L 4-bangers.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: Familyguy
I've read about some success with MMO soaks on slimed rings on the old Saturn 1.9L 4-bangers.



That's what I'm going to try, as soon as I can figure out how to get MMO.

 

[mpvue]

the popular tip on saturnfans.com is the MMO soak. it's cheap, quick and easy. I 've never had any particular saturn long enough to try ARX on it.
the prolem w/ the saturn 1.9 is there are no oil drainback holes behind the rings. the rings get packed solid and don't spring back against the cylinder walls any more. the MMO is supposed to leak past the rings and loosen them up.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

I am one of those that did not see oil consumption reduced after using Auto-RX many times in my 99SL2. Car ran better. Runs like a new car, but still uses about 1 quart per 800 miles. I am thinking my problem is more valve guide seals. I get a puff of smoke in stop-n-go traffic or after a short trip. Even with piston soaks it is hit and miss. For some it helps, others it has not effect on reducing oil consumption. Some people use Seafoam instead of MMO for the piston soak. Piston soaks do not cost much to do, so it is worth a try. Never heard of Exxon/Mobil System Cleaner. I have given up on reducing oil consumption. I just buy on sale and top off regularly. My understanding is oil consumption does not affect longevity of the engine. It is more of a hassle at this point.

 

[The Critic]

Auto-RX did not reduce the oil consumption on my Saturn.

There are some design issues with the early Saturn 1.9L engines, and I doubt that any chemical cleaner will significantly reduce the oil consumption.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Auto-RX did not reduce the oil consumption on my Saturn.

There are some design issues with the early Saturn 1.9L engines, and I doubt that any chemical cleaner will significantly reduce the oil consumption.


I don't know...some people are successful. Food for thought:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138987&highlight=oil+consumption+ATF

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
I've read about some success with MMO soaks on slimed rings on the old Saturn 1.9L 4-bangers.



That's what I'm going to try, as soon as I can figure out how to get MMO.


You can't find it in your local Walmart? A significant percentage of those early 1.9's burned oil, even when fed quality synthetic from the get-go. A shame since they were nice little economy cars at the time.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

My understanding is the engineers at the time were concerned about the film strength of 5w-30 oil. So, by design the oil is thicker around the rings. Those people who rebuild the engine and put drain holes in the pistons have eliminated oil consumption.

 

[eljefino]

I have also not had success with ARX. MMO was a great decarbonizer, lots of pep after a soak treatment. My SOHCs like to retard timing, verified with scan tool. If one gets a "burp" of oil the ECM remembers that low octane for hundreds of miles and one gets a flat spot at that RPM/load.

Have also had twin cam seriously oil burning saturns that take it in stride with little to no loss in power.

Having done the rings on a couple of these motors, they seemed rather asphalted in.

 

[fraso]

Thank you for the advice about MMO but I'm actually interested in anyone's experience with Exxon System Cleaner (ESC). I just figured that Saturn owners would have been most likely to have tried this product. I've also been following the ATF discussion on SaturnFans but have my doubts that ATF is an ideal ring cleaner.

According to the ESC product data sheet, a 5% concentration of ESC should be used for at least 24 hours. In a vehicle travelling at 60 mph, this works out to 1440 miles so I would consider this to be more a cleaner rather than a flush. Since the 24 hour recommendation is a minimum, my guess is that it would not hurt to run it for an entire OCI, provided the engine is clean and only the oil rings need cleaning.

I became aware of how notorious the Saturn 1.9L engine is for burning oil when I became more involved with the maintenance of my parents' Saturns (1998 SL2 with ~165,000 km & 2001 SL2 with ~108,000 km). See Saturn SL2 Oil Advice for more information. Neither car burns more than 1L/10,000 km and I see that this is very usual for an S-series. However, I know of many people locally who have these vehicles and none are able to or want to do an MMO soak.

Since ESC appears to be formulated completely differently than Auto-Rx (see ESC MSDS), I would like to know if adding this cleaner to an engine with severely carbonized oil rings would improve its oil consumption.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: fraso
Thank you for the advice about MMO but I'm actually interested in anyone's experience with Exxon System Cleaner (ESC). I just figured that Saturn owners would have been most likely to have tried this product. I've also been following the ATF discussion on SaturnFans but have my doubts that ATF is an ideal ring cleaner.

According to the ESC product data sheet, a 5% concentration of ESC should be used for at least 24 hours. In a vehicle travelling at 60 mph, this works out to 1440 miles so I would consider this to be more a cleaner rather than a flush. Since the 24 hour recommendation is a minimum, my guess is that it would not hurt to run it for an entire OCI, provided the engine is clean and only the oil rings need cleaning.

I became aware of how notorious the Saturn 1.9L engine is for burning oil when I became more involved with the maintenance of my parents' Saturns (1998 SL2 with ~165,000 km & 2001 SL2 with ~108,000 km). See Saturn SL2 Oil Advice for more information. Neither car burns more than 1L/10,000 km and I see that this is very usual for an S-series. However, I know of many people locally who have these vehicles and none are able to or want to do an MMO soak.

Since ESC appears to be formulated completely differently than Auto-Rx (see ESC MSDS), I would like to know if adding this cleaner to an engine with severely carbonized oil rings would improve its oil consumption.


I see. So rather than listen to a couple of people who have stated that MMO is known to help, you'd prefer to roll the dice on a product that doesn't appear to have any real recommendations here. mmm'kay. Do let us know how that works out. I can't pull up the data sheet you posted, as it just hangs my browser.

Best,

 

[fraso]

Originally Posted By: Familyguy
I see. So rather than listen to a couple of people who have stated that MMO is known to help, you'd prefer to roll the dice on a product that doesn't appear to have any real recommendations here. mmm'kay. Do let us know how that works out. I can't pull up the data sheet you posted, as it just hangs my browser.

[If you can't pull up the data sheet, try a different browser.]

While I've read that MMO is known to help, I don't believe that it is truly effective at removing oil ring carbon. So far, the only permanent repair is removal of the pistons, mechanical cleaning, and adding oil return holes to the oil ring grooves. Besides the MMO soak, I understand that GM Piston & Ring Cleaner is also effective.

As I mentioned earlier, I know many Saturn owners locally who can't/won't do a MMO or GM P&R Cleaner soak. Just because no other Saturn owners have tried ESC doesn't mean ESC won't work. I know that pitzel here has recommended ESC several times and I was wondering if anyone has taken him up on his advice.

The ESC data sheet states that it is suitable for engine crankcases and that it is highly recommended for removing varnish, carbon, sludge, and other contaminants. Since when does asking for experience of others of a seemingly appropriate product mean rolling the dice?

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: fraso
Thank you for the advice about MMO but I'm actually interested in anyone's experience with Exxon System Cleaner (ESC). I just figured that Saturn owners would have been most likely to have tried this product.

I've been active on saturnfans for years and have never heard anyone talk about ESC. sorry.
of course, most folks there are pretty cheap, so if it's more than a couple bicks, they won't go near it.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: fraso

I've been active on saturnfans for years and have never heard anyone talk about ESC. sorry.


Same here. Maybe you will be the person to start a thread how Exxon/Mobil System Cleaner was helpful...

 

[severach]

Exxon System Cleaner has been discontinued. Mobil System Cleaner reads the same so Mobil must have rebranded it. Google Shopping can't find any place that sells either. If we can't buy it we can't help test it.

One reason you'll always feel pressure towards MMO and away from other stuff is because MMO is good, cheap, and easy to get.

With that "20%" recommendation I'm inclined to think that ESC and MSC could be MMO relabeled. If you have some check it close.

 

[Audi Junkie]

A place by me sells it, a oil dist. It comes in 5G pails and is expensive.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A place by me sells it, a oil dist. It comes in 5G pails and is expensive.


I searched online and found one place selling it in 5gal pails or in 55gal drums. In the 5gal container, it worked out to about 40 cents/oz plus shipping. That's almost triple the cost of MMO.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: severach

With that "20%" recommendation I'm inclined to think that ESC and MSC could be MMO relabeled. If you have some check it close.


Absolutely false. MMO is chlorinated hydrocarbons in petroleum solvents. MSC is alcohols and amines. Check the MSDS.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: severach

Neither car burns more than 1L/10,000 km and I see that this is very usual for an S-series.


Is it usual or unsual? I thought Saturn consumed more oil?

Either way I don't see that you have a problem here. Do a prophylactic cylinder soak (with whatever solvent of cleaner you fancy) from time to time followed by a quick flush with MMO, karosene or ATF and oil change.

As for the oil choice, some people developed oil consumption on Mobil 1 and some people did not. A lot of variables. I heard good things about high mileage oils in Saturs.