Ford 5.4l 3v design /5w20

[modularv8]

I believe the Ford 5.4l 3v really is designed for 5w-20 after reading the article link below.

I would also note that Ford's new 5.4l 3v operates with a 15 degree cooler thermostat temperature than previous model years (2004 and earlier). Older engines had a 5 quart capacity, while the newer engines are 7 quarts. Both of these changes are done to dissipate the extra heat off the higher flow/volume rate of the 5w20 oil. I found the main bearing design reference interesting since they are a different shape and reduce oil bleed off. It also mentions that main/rod bearings specs are different for the VCT to function properly.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0908_variable_valve_timing/ford_modular_v8.html

 

[demarpaint]

Seems like some thought went into it, good read!

BTW WELCOME TO BITOG!

 

[Johnny]

That was a good read.

 

[Zaedock]

Where does the article mention oil weight?

 

[RWEST]

Those are definitely some interesting engines, capable of amazing amounts of HP with minor mods..

 

[fascination127]

Great read. Always lookin for this kind of info.

 

[erogers]

And yet 40 weights are still specified by Ford for their modulars in other parts of the world. So, once again, CAFE rears its ugly head in the U.S. I'm not bashing 5W-20 (I'm running it in my 4.6). I'm just saying these modular engines will run and run on any number of oils, provided they are correct for the temperature/climate.

 

[Jason2007]

The old 2 valves were designed to run on 5w30, but since the 3 valves were released, perhaps it was designed from the ground up to be run on 5w20?

 

[fascination127]

The old 2 valves were designed to run on 5w30, but since the 3 valves were released, perhaps it was designed from the ground up to be run on 5w20?

A definitive, documented answer to this has been hard to come by... Ford guys, anyone?

 

[DieselTech]

5-30 will be fine, I run ASL in out 07 5.4. These mod engines will run great on a good 30weight but I feel 40 is a bit much for an overhead cam engine.

 

[Zaedock]

The 2 valve engines were not "designed" to run on any specific oil. Ford recommended 5W30 and back spec'd to 5W20 because they felt that the engine and it's control systems were able to maintain adequate oil temperatures and oil viscosity that provide acceptable protection and economy.

In other words, these engines don't really "need" anything thicker to maintain acceptable longevity. That doesn't mean, however, that a thicker oil can't be run or even offer better than "acceptable" protection.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
So, once again, CAFE rears its ugly head in the U.S.


Perhaps

Quote:
I'm just saying these modular engines will run and run on any number of oils, provided they are correct for the temperature/climate.


..and what climate/temperature does CAFE magically neutralize in the USA? I don't think too many places in the world trump somewhere in the USA. No place in Europe ..not even Oz...maybe not even Saudi Arabia.

 

[tig1]

I'm using 5-30 in both of my Fords with great results. Engines are speced for 5-20.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: erogers
CAFE rears its ugly head in the U.S.


I've yet to see any direct evidence that supports this statement.

Example: 2004 Chrysler 3.8L V-6, in a minivan, specs 5W-30. 2005 Chrysler 3.8L V-6, in a minivan, specs 5W-20. The EPA estimates did not change. So how did CAFE do this? Aren't CAFE numbers based upon the EPA economy estimates?

 

[modularv8]

I looked around the world on the net for where other f150's are sold, found only one place I could find an owner's manual for the same exact truck/engine sold in the US (5.4l 3v. Found it in Chile and the manual recommends 5w30 but also mentions to use 5w20 if available as grade for optimal performance in fuel economy and engine durability. So, I don't know what's best. Maybe 5w20 in the winter, 5w30 summer? I think I've been obsessing too much about motor oil. Learned alot, but in the end I think it doesn't matter. Either one of these two grades will work and protect the same under normal conditions. I'm sticking to MC 5w20.

Anyone notice that 5w20 is more expensive than 5w30 for same brand and type (blend, synthetic,..)? I've read from some journals by Exxon where they have to use superior base oils (group III) and different formulations to meet the more stringent standards of GF-4. So maybe thin, but better oil with higher flow rate is best.

 

[OVERKILL]

The old 2V Modular engines were not "designed" to run on a particular grade. They spec 5w20 to 20w50 depending on where you live.

Ford Australia for example, for the 2V engines, specs a range from 5w30 to 20w50 as acceptable lube choices. Most get fed 15w40/5w40.

Ford Australia specs 5w30/10w30 for the 3V engines. So that in itself is proof that it is obviously not "necessary" to run 5w20, this would then lead one to believe the North American spec to at least in part be a function of CAFE.......

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
...

Ford Australia specs 5w30/10w30 for the 3V engines. So that in itself is proof that it is obviously not "necessary" to run 5w20, this would then lead one to believe the North American spec to at least in part be a function of CAFE.......


Or North America is more technologically advanced and has superior goods at the customer's disposal.

Using the "everyone else...." argument is a fallacy and a fool's errand. It makes for a lazy and silly argument.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
...

Ford Australia specs 5w30/10w30 for the 3V engines. So that in itself is proof that it is obviously not "necessary" to run 5w20, this would then lead one to believe the North American spec to at least in part be a function of CAFE.......


Or North America is more technologically advanced and has superior goods at the customer's disposal.

Using the "everyone else...." argument is a fallacy and a fool's errand. It makes for a lazy and silly argument.


That of course is why Ford of Australia has a 425HP version of the 5.4L DOHC, and we don't. Because we are so much more technologically advanced........

That is utterly ridiculous.

The Modular engines are setup no differently over there (with the exception of coming in variants offering higher power output) than they are here.

Australia has no CAFE, and subsequently there has never been a push to use lighter oil.

If 20-weight oils were the Holy Grail, companies like Mercedes Benz, Porsche, BMW and the like would be using them in their high output engines. But that is not the case, is it?

And in engines that ARE spec'd for lighter oil, like what is specifically mentioned in this article, sump size is increased, a higher volume oil pump is fitted and oil coolers are added to CONTROL SUMP TEMPERATURE. Why? Because when oil gets hot it gets THIN. And if you think a 20w oil is going to offer the same buffer of protection at high oil temperatures that a 40-weight will, I've got some land to sell you.

The "everyone else..." argument is only a fallacy when one does not want to look beyond the end of their own nose and feels that everything they do is "the best". Obviously ignorance is bliss in this case.

 

[modularv8]

Curious about the Australian 3v engine oil spec. Can't seem to find anything related to the oil spec for these engines on Ford Australia. If you can help with a link or direction to the info that would be awesome. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I can't find it anywhere and I've looked really hard. Thanks,

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: modularv8
Curious about the Australian 3v engine oil spec. Can't seem to find anything related to the oil spec for these engines on Ford Australia. If you can help with a link or direction to the info that would be awesome. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I can't find it anywhere and I've looked really hard. Thanks,


You can use Mobil's site to look it up. The specs were very kindly posted by another member who lives there not that long ago. He was the first to inform us that the 3V version specifies a 10w30/5w30. This was a surprise, because as I said, previous Modular engines had a large range of acceptable grades, from 5w30 through 20w50.