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Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Gary Allan] #1637124 10/18/09 11:46 PM
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Bigsyke Offline OP
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The catch can is under the strut tower bar.



This is a setup I experimented with.

I didnt like it. It felt inefficient.


2005 Nissan 350z Track M1 0W40
92 Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo M1 0W40

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Bigsyke] #1637126 10/18/09 11:50 PM
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saaber1 Offline
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I would take all that stuff out of there and just run it to the exhaust and get the power gains. Or if you run to atmosphere, remove all those flow restrictions. Each of those is a flow restirciton. For a VTA (and for exhaust slashcut for that matter) you need no restrictions. It has to breathe well.

Last edited by saaber1; 10/18/09 11:50 PM.

"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL
Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: saaber1] #1637129 10/18/09 11:55 PM
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Bigsyke Offline OP
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Thats what im going to do, however I need a bung welded for a slash cut, which wont be happening soon.


2005 Nissan 350z Track M1 0W40
92 Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo M1 0W40

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: StevieC] #1637382 10/19/09 09:03 AM
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mechtech2 Offline
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Vacuum PCV systems are more for keeping vapors and oils off of the road and out of the atmosphere. Anyone remember draft tubes and the oil line in the middle of most roads?
On a side note, piston rings can be designed to utilize the negative pressure in the crankcase to work better. Seals leak less, with negative pressure.
But good non pressurized venting is not necessarily bad for an engine.
There is something wrong if you have to change the PCV valve so frequently. Very wrong.
If your catch can is restrictive, get a bigger one or use two in parallel. If you use the common water separator type, remove the filter and run it backwards.

BTW, I don't like that pictured set up, either!

Last edited by mechtech2; 10/19/09 09:04 AM.
Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Bigsyke] #1637398 10/19/09 09:20 AM
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saaber1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bigsyke
And gary I would love to install one of those slash cuts in the exhaust, however I do not have easy access to a welder at the moment.


Exhaust shop will do it for $50. You have to watch to make sure they install it correctly though. As with everything an experienced muffler guy/welder makes a big diff. in installing it correctly.


"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL
Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: saaber1] #1643184 10/23/09 04:37 PM
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Bigsyke Offline OP
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So does anybody know a good method when VTA to help stop moisture and condensation from froming inside the engine? Does having the vent hoses pointing down prevent moisture from entering the crankcase?


2005 Nissan 350z Track M1 0W40
92 Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo M1 0W40

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Bigsyke] #1643434 10/23/09 08:07 PM
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mva Offline
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Venting the crankcase to atmosphere is a highly polluting practice - oil fumes, small oil particles, unburnt gas, blow by exhaust straight into the air. If everyone did this picture Mexico city or LA in the early seventies - sore eyes, trouble breathing, smog, etc.

PCV systems were a great innovation in pollution control, improved mileage and reduced engine wear by filtering make-up air, burning the oil droplets, burning fuel vapours and controling air circulation through the crankcase.


2014 Ford F150 Ecoboost 19,000km Motocraft 5W30 oil

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: mva] #1643601 10/23/09 11:34 PM
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Bigsyke Offline OP
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i dont think everyone will be doing this. They are a great innovation only for pollution control, they do not improve mileage unless replacing a clogged valve with a new one -the air is still metered from the fresh air intake, burning oil in the cylinders isnt healty, and air circulation in the crankcase only happens durring vacuum conditions such as idling or decel. On my car the pcv flows one direction, until the throttle plate is opened, then its just plain venting via positive pressure.

I can contain the polution with a vented can, i just need to prevent condensation


2005 Nissan 350z Track M1 0W40
92 Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo M1 0W40

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Bigsyke] #1643868 10/24/09 08:48 AM
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mva Offline
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From this link:

"About 20% of the total hydrocarbon (HC) emissions produced by a vehicle are blowby emissions from gases that get past the piston rings and enter the crankcase. The higher the mileage on the engine and the greater the wear on the piston rings and cylinders, the greater the blowby into the crankcase.

Before PCV was invented, blowby vapors were simply vented to the atmosphere through a "road draft tube" that ran from a vent hole in a valve cover or valley cover down toward the ground.

In 1961, the first PCV systems appeared on California cars. The PCV system used intake vacuum to siphon blowby vapors back into the intake manifold. This allowed the HC to be re-burned and eliminated blowby vapors as a source of pollution"

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm

By burning these hydrocarbons, rather than spewing them into the air, you will improve your gas mileage slightly.


2014 Ford F150 Ecoboost 19,000km Motocraft 5W30 oil

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: mva] #1643903 10/24/09 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: mva
From this link:

"About 20% of the total hydrocarbon (HC) emissions produced by a vehicle are blowby emissions from gases that get past the piston rings and enter the crankcase. The higher the mileage on the engine and the greater the wear on the piston rings and cylinders, the greater the blowby into the crankcase.

Before PCV was invented, blowby vapors were simply vented to the atmosphere through a "road draft tube" that ran from a vent hole in a valve cover or valley cover down toward the ground.

In 1961, the first PCV systems appeared on California cars. The PCV system used intake vacuum to siphon blowby vapors back into the intake manifold. This allowed the HC to be re-burned and eliminated blowby vapors as a source of pollution"

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm

By burning these hydrocarbons, rather than spewing them into the air, you will improve your gas mileage slightly.


Not sure of that, have you ever looked at some of these intake manifolds? I have and they are an oily mess ! This can't be improving gas mileage.

Chevy Trucks can actually use oil due to pulling vapours and oil through the PCV and burning them. Chevy came out with a small hole PCV to stop this.


Vehicles:
98 Corvette
06 Murano
96 Chevy Van (Custom Conversion)
14 Chevy Impala
10 Starcraft Boat
13 Buick Enclave
Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Corvette Owner] #1643924 10/24/09 09:43 AM
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Something is wrong if you need to change the PCV on a ka24de that often. I had a 1998 Altima SE that was auto crossed fairly frequently, and I never replaced the PCV in 176,000 miles. The car burned zero oil on 6k OCI with GC, even when raced. One of the club members had a 240sx with a turbo, and 130k miles on, he said he never touched the PCV valve. If the PCV is plugging up that fast, you have some serious blow by.

Running a negative crankcase pressure helps improve power by reducing crankcase pumping losses. As the pistons move down, they create pressure in the crankcase.

With the engine warm and at idle, remove the oil filler cap. If the idle drops slightly and there is a minimal amount of air coming out the cap hole, you have minimal blow by. If the idle stays the same and there is lots of air coming out, you have severe blow by. There are always vapors in the engine, it means there is nothing wrong. Piston rings never have a perfect 100% seal, there is always some gasses leaking past.

If you really have a plugged PCV every oil change, you some some serious mechanical issues, and catch cans, road tubes and the like will not really help much until the mechanical issue is corrected.


2011 Honda Accord EX Saloon, Manual, K24Z3, Toyota Synthetic 0w-20, Napa Gold 7356
2008 Pontiac Vibe 1ZZFE, PP 5w-20, Federated LF410F
Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: StevieC] #1643926 10/24/09 09:45 AM
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I think what he means is that instead of the PCV valve venting into the air box like most car's he wants to put a small K&N filter on the hose end and vent it to atmosphere that way. I do not think he means the old metal push in crome vent caps in the valve cover's like old cars from the 1960's and such. So he intends to keep the PCV in the valve cover and just vent the house to atmosphere. PCV is not a positive pressure all the time hence the one way valve if you vent to open air with out the valve and a filter their will be times you are sucking in dirt. Also some engines are designed so that they do not run properly if the PCV is messed with they get reading on the vaccum side of things that are erratic and too low. My wife's car does not run that well if I remove the PCV and just leave it out. It will run just not as well.Different designs have different tolerance for this type of thing.

Since 1988 I can count on 1 hand how many PCV's I have replaced on car's. I always clean with carb cleaner each time I change oil and put them back in. So about 1 PCV valve somtime between 150,000-300,000 is my norm. The only vechile I have ever had one fail on is the wifes 1997 Buick like everything on that car it has had to be replaced before the car even had 120,000 miles!

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: JohnBrowning] #1644008 10/24/09 10:45 AM
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mva Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
I think what he means is that instead of the PCV valve venting into the air box like most car's he wants to put a small K&N filter on the hose end and vent it to atmosphere that way.


Crankcase fumes contain unburnt hydrocarbons (unburnt gasoline, CO and very small particles of oil). These all are major pollutants. It is much better to run them back through the engine to be burnt. Most of this material will get by both a K&N filter and/or a "catch can".

If you have excessive blow-by or some other problem you can get to the point of burning excessive oil but these should not be an issue on any properly maintained vehicle.


2014 Ford F150 Ecoboost 19,000km Motocraft 5W30 oil

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: Corvette Owner] #1644137 10/24/09 12:29 PM
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mechtech2 Offline
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PCV systems were pretty much standardized back when most cars had carburetors.
The fuel/air washed the manifold clean.
Now , with fuel injection, manifolds and throttle bodies can get dirty from PCV flow and incidental hot soak vapors from the residue.
This is why catch cans are a good idea.
Factories can't install them, as they call for frequent maintenance that would never be tolerated or performed by the average citizen.

Re: Venting PCV and Oil contamination. [Re: mechtech2] #1644371 10/24/09 04:49 PM
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mva no offense intended but I could care less about a few PCV related hydrocarbons venting tothe air. Have looked at how any Cadilac and Saturns have black bumpers from oil burning? I was behind a Malibu that was not more then 12 months old and when the guy steped onthe gas to pass oil smoke was coming out the exhast. Outside those states that have California emissions most people in the USA are driving some serious polluting vehicles as in not replacing cat's when they fail just welding a bung and strait pipe in place, not keeping the vehicle in a state of good tune, not keeping air filters replaced as needed, not replacing PCV valves so they turn into oil burning machines from hati etc..........I see all kinds of vehicles here in Michigan and in Georgia that would not be allowed on the roads in California and would not pass a Germany car inspection either!

If I recall correctly most modern car's that are in a proper state of tune produce something like 72% fewer emissions then they did pre-clean air laws! SO I honest do not see automotive emissions as a primary source of pollution.

If you really want to clean things up then get China to put less pollution from their plants into the air and get Mexico to clean up it's act! Switch us over from coal to Nuke power and get all the cows in the world to put methane catalyst in their buts! Oh and get termites to clean up their methane and co2 emissions as well!

The car both gas and diesel have been happered enough by the EPA it is not going to get much better so find another dog to beat because the car is is dead and in the ground.....Even new big rigs have all kinds of particulate filters and egr's etc......

On top of that if they vent to the exhast their should be at least to cat's behind it to finish it off! My I4 has two pup cat's in the exhast manifold and two more down stream I think the two down stream kats can handle a little bit of PVC gases with out causeing the end of the world as we know it!

P.S. London in the 1400-1800's hadno cars but had some of the worst pollution in the history of mankind! Guess those British should of frozen to death or put catalytic converters and PCV valves on their smoke stacks!LOL

Just like Peak oil has been proven wrong......I said it when it first showed up on this site it was rubish!Global Warming is equaly bad science!

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