Redline 50W Racing, 200 race miles, WC spec SRT-4

[DavidT]

World Challenge spec SRT-4:

OIL - Redline 50W racing
Total Miles on car - 2000
Miles on Sample - 200
SAMPLE TAKEN 9/01/09

ALUMINUM 1
CHROMIUM 1
IRON 30
COPPER 180
LEAD 10
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 1012
NICKEL 2
MANGANESE 5
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 25
SILICON 31
SODIUM 23
CALCIUM 1393
MAGNESIUM 5
PHOSPHORUS 2538
ZINC 2454
BARIUM 0

INSOLUBLES 0.5
WATER 0
FLASHPOINT ºF 440
SUS VIS 210ºF 92.4
cSt @ 212ºF 18.56
Fuel Antifreeze 0

How does this look? After draining the Redline 50W, I put Mobil 1 15w-50 in the car this oil change and just finished one track day. Motec system logs oil pressure and my average pressure dropped from 43 psi (50w redline) to 34 psi (15w-50 M1). So I am thinking about switching back to Redline. I currently have Redline 15w-50 and 20w-50 sitting on the shelf, I am concerned the 20w-50 might be too thick so I may run the 15w-50.

-David

 

[tig1]

That much Copper? Where does that come from?

 

[oliver88]

Why run the 50 wt? I'd run no heavier than the 40 or 10w40 Redline.

 

[DavidT]

Not sure, the report summary said " The high iron and copper are possibly the result of a) lingering wear-in at steel and brass/bronze parts (turbo, bushing, oil cooler), and b) the hard operation from racing."

The car is a turbo car making about 350 hp to the wheels out of 2.4 liters. The Redline oil in the car was fairly old (2 yrs) but had low hrs and I was not aware that the racing oils lacked detergents until I did further research. I decided to run a non-racing spec oil for one change to attempt to cleanse the motor.

 

[DavidT]

Originally Posted By: oliver88
Why run the 50 wt? I'd run no heavier than the 40 or 10w40 Redline.


I purchased the car after it was retired from World Challenge racing. The 50W race oil is what they competed with and they installed fresh 50W oil in the car before selling. I ran this for a couple events then got this oil analysis done. As for the Mobil 1 15W-50, that is a popular recommendation by the SRT Engineers in all the chat sessions for tracked cars. Then for the street they recommend 0w-40 Mobil 1. I have been debating about 40w vs 50w. I am also concerned if I switch to 40w that I would further lose average oil pressure.

-David

 

[hooligan24]

this must be tenney from the other forums? Have you talked with archer racing or who ever built the motor to find out what they recommend to run? I would bet you could get away with Redline 40w or even their 30w racing oils.

what mods have been done to the engine internals and oiling system?

Are you sure you dont have the copper and lead numbers mixed up? at first glance, I thought the 180 was next to the lead, then assumed you ran leaded race fuel at your events....

edit: just curious, what do you run in the vipers? Team Mopar/Lux racing was using Redline Racing 30w in her two WC Vipers the last time I visited her shop

 

[DavidT]

Yes I am normally either tenney or dtenney on most forums. Archer racing built my wifes SRT-4 race car. This World Challenge car was built by 3R Racing.

The engine internals are "stock" - sealed motor from Dodge Motorsports. The oiling system is running a big Wix racing filter, Ron Davis oil cooler, and Peterson wire mesh return filter. Otherwise I believe the oil pan and pump are stock.

Copper is 180 and Lead is 10 unless Blackstone wrote the numbers down wrong.

I have run 0w-40 M1, 15w-50 M1, and 15w-50 Redline in the Vipers. I plan to run 0w-40 M1 now as the cars are not being tracked except with the possible exception of some winter time play.

 

[hooligan24]

stock internals and being redline, I think you should give their 10w40 a try and then get another UOA done to compare. I use their 10w30 street oil when I head to the road course, but I am farely close to stock(05 srt4 with 250hp/280tq).

Have you contacted Dave at redline yet? You can let him know your situation and he can give you a good recommendation. I would put money on him suggesting to run the 30w Racing Oil and change it out every 500 or so track miles.

go to redlines site and send them an email to get in contact with Dave

-The copper is most likely from the oil cooler. I would think lead would also be high if the metals came from the bearings

High Si - have you done a boost leak test lately? get your intake plumbing/charge pipes nice and tight/leak free, and those numbers should drop. they seem way to high for 200 miles, unless you have opened up the engine or hit the track without an air filter

 

[hooligan24]

does anyone else think this motor is still breaking in? it only has 2000 miles, but they are most likely all track/racing miles. oil has probably been changed 10+ times if I had to take a guess.

 

[johnbottilaw]

I had an evo making 400 at the wheels and did way better than this using Redline 5w-30. I regularly shifted at 7500, and kept it above 5500 all day. My oil reports looked better than this after 500 miles. I used 4 quarts Redline 5w-30 and one quart Redline Racing oil 40 weight.

 

[DavidT]

Originally Posted By: hooligan24
does anyone else think this motor is still breaking in? it only has 2000 miles, but they are most likely all track/racing miles. oil has probably been changed 10+ times if I had to take a guess.


I know these engines are known to last 300 hrs in race environment, this engine has about 30 hrs on it currently.

-David

 

[DavidT]

Also FYI - when I took the oil sample I wanted worst case analysis so the car was cold and I took sample from oil drain plug on the first oil that came out. I am planning to send another sample off this week of the Mobil 1 15w-50 with one track day of use and will post the results of that UOA.

 

[addyguy]

I know that Redline knows what it is doing, but I've read here many times that ZDDP amounts beyond about 2000ppm can cause problems with the metal in the engine.....or is that only in street applications, and doesn't appply to race engines?

 

[DavidT]

Originally Posted By: tig1
That much Copper? Where does that come from?


That's what I was wondering as well. Hopefully the next oil sample with provide more insight.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

You will need to run the Redline three or more OCI's before the numbers settle out. Been here before with a much higher output motor in my 96 SS.

 

[DavidT]

New oil analysis:

World Challenge spec SRT-4:

OIL - Redline 20W/50
Total Miles on car - 2300
Miles on Sample - 170
SAMPLE TAKEN 10/05/09

ALUMINUM 2
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 9
COPPER 16
LEAD 4
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 540
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 1
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 3
BORON 44
SILICON 17
SODIUM 13
CALCIUM 2615
MAGNESIUM 10
PHOSPHORUS 1193
ZINC 1400
BARIUM 0

INSOLUBLES 0.1
WATER 0
FLASHPOINT ºF 425
SUS VIS 210ºF 81.6
cSt @ 212ºF 15.93
Fuel Antifreeze 0

The report read "Wear improved considerably in the latest sample from this Neon. Copper is still a bit above average but the metals that we found here are likely carryover from the last oil run through the engine. The viscosity of the oil was pretty low for a 20W/50 and read in the 15W/40 range. We aren't sure what cause a visocity shift like this, as no fuel was present, but it doesn't seem to be a problem either."

This report was using the Redline street formulation 20W/50 that was only run at Roebling Road and then sample was taken. I am replacing the Motec oil pressure sending unit before the next Gainesville event as I believe the oil pressure problem is electronic.

-David

 

[addyguy]

I'm suprised Redline 20W-50 sheared well into the 40-weight range.

If any oil could hold visc., I'd expect it to be Redline. It did do well, though.

 

[DavidT]

Installed new engine, as the oil pressure problem was probably in the oil pump itself. I had a spare new motor, so decided it would be best to install that engine. This is the 1st analysis on new engine

New oil analysis:

World Challenge spec SRT-4:

OIL - Redline racing 50W - (15W/50)
Total Miles on new engine - 600
Miles on Sample - 483
SAMPLE TAKEN 5/31/10

ALUMINUM 1
CHROMIUM 1
IRON 17
COPPER 69
LEAD 36
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 904
NICKEL 1
MANGANESE 2
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 3
BORON 27
SILICON 22
SODIUM 42
CALCIUM 1811
MAGNESIUM 6
PHOSPHORUS 1866
ZINC 2428
BARIUM 0

INSOLUBLES 0.2
WATER 0
FLASHPOINT ºF 430
SUS VIS 210ºF 78.6
cSt @ 212ºF 15.18
Fuel Antifreeze 0

I see two possible problems contributing to these results:
1) Ran the oil too long dropping the visocity
2) New engine still breaking in

I plan to check the oil at 200 miles on the next oil change.

-David

 

[addyguy]

I'd say break-in.

I'm shocked it sheared into the 40-weight range in less than 500 miles...Redline ain't supposed to DO that!

 

[azsynthetic]

Red Line 50WT Racing oil starts out at 16.8 so it has not sheared at all.

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Synthetic Racing Oil Product Data.pdf