Recent Topics
Dodge Challenger R/T Tips and Tricks?
by LoneRanger. 12/12/18 06:02 AM
MIL vehicle suggestion $8000
by madRiver. 12/12/18 06:00 AM
Toyota 2TR-FE 2.7 questions
by Doublehaul. 12/12/18 12:32 AM
Anybody used Eurolub?
by FordCapriDriver. 12/12/18 12:18 AM
Micro-Green Cut Open
by David1. 12/11/18 11:45 PM
Witch way does this valve work?
by Dylan1303. 12/11/18 11:42 PM
Santa came early..
by leoblack9. 12/11/18 11:22 PM
dropped a zip tie in my prius trans
by eljefino. 12/11/18 09:54 PM
2 Cello's - Some talented fellows right here.
by StevieC. 12/11/18 09:49 PM
Something different for sure - Punjabi Celtic
by StevieC. 12/11/18 09:40 PM
Honda eu200i hiccuping @ low idle - fixed
by Jmoney7269. 12/11/18 09:34 PM
Your dealer is here - Humor
by StevieC. 12/11/18 08:46 PM
1994 Honda Civic LX Main Relay-solder
by Gito. 12/11/18 08:43 PM
Winter/Summer Fuel Economy
by RayCJ. 12/11/18 08:33 PM
0w20 oils - NOACK
by superangrypenguin. 12/11/18 08:19 PM
Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 5w20 API SN
by Johnny248. 12/11/18 08:15 PM
Buy a brand new 1966-1977 Ford Bronco
by StevieC. 12/11/18 07:50 PM
2012 Accord,QSUD 5W20,WIX 57356 filter,3K miles
by aquariuscsm. 12/11/18 07:05 PM
Newest Members
ariefnrst, tcoffin014, Schm1d, EagleC, Dinka
66655 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
76 registered members (aquariuscsm, Bailes1992, 4WD, Astro_Guy, Astro14, askani79705, 10 invisible), 1,130 guests, and 28 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,966
Posts4,925,013
Members66,655
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 5 1 2 5
BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? #1599969
09/14/09 01:43 PM
09/14/09 01:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,743
Chicago, IL
tomcat27 Offline OP
tomcat27  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,743
Chicago, IL
I know Castrol has a 10w-60 TWS oil; and I know this was covered a month ago (so I will search) whats anyone running in M1 or Amsoil?


2019 Cherokee, 2018 Jetta, 2014 Sentra, 1995 Escort, 1970 Cougar, 2013 XT250, 2010 Vstar, 2014 CTX1300
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: tomcat27] #1600005
09/14/09 02:15 PM
09/14/09 02:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 521
Richmond, BC, Canada
mechjames Offline
mechjames  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 521
Richmond, BC, Canada
I just did an amsoil lookup on a 2008 M3 with the 4.0L engine, and there is no equivalent amsoil product for that engine.

Try this: http://www.amsoil.com/scripts/runisa.dll?amsoiloaf.587137158:RIGHTPANEL:856409547:M3,BW,N,852.

Mobil 1 I also did a lookup on their site and there is no recommended Mobil 1 product either.


86 Mustang 5.0L 170km - Amsoil XL 5w30 / Baldwin B2-HPG
14 Ram 1500 5.7 - Amsoil XL 5w20 / Baldwin B7443
98 Jeep ZJ 5.9 - Amsoil OE 10w30 / Baldwin B34
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: mechjames] #1600008
09/14/09 02:17 PM
09/14/09 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 521
Richmond, BC, Canada
mechjames Offline
mechjames  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 521
Richmond, BC, Canada
Here is the official BMW approved list, scroll down for the M engines. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx


86 Mustang 5.0L 170km - Amsoil XL 5w30 / Baldwin B2-HPG
14 Ram 1500 5.7 - Amsoil XL 5w20 / Baldwin B7443
98 Jeep ZJ 5.9 - Amsoil OE 10w30 / Baldwin B34
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: tomcat27] #1600010
09/14/09 02:20 PM
09/14/09 02:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,730
SE PA
Trajan Offline
Trajan  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,730
SE PA
If it's under warranty, used what's called for. If not, use it anyway.

They didn't spec 10w-60 for brown organic matter and giggles.



Lack of harm is not proof of benefit.

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates




Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: Trajan] #1600032
09/14/09 02:42 PM
09/14/09 02:42 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,448
USA
JohnBrowning Offline
JohnBrowning  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,448
USA
M1 15W50, RTS 5W40 as well as other brands in this range all work well!

Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: JohnBrowning] #1600076
09/14/09 03:16 PM
09/14/09 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,365
orwellian sheep land?
Max_Wander Offline
Max_Wander  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,365
orwellian sheep land?
What a band-aid solution for a poorly designed, yet highly regarded engine. I guess it's easier for the proud german organization to recommend slack wax as a motor oil than it is to admit the problem and fix it for free. That said, the 10w60 is some serious stuff, you'd be chancing it with OTC oil.

Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: JohnBrowning] #1600089
09/14/09 03:26 PM
09/14/09 03:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
Here's why I and my friends who drive BMWs that spec the 10w-60 are wary of alternatives:


- BMW's M division worked with Castrol to develop the engines and the oil together.

- BMW takes every opportunity to consolidate fluids across its models. They never use a different fluid for one of their cars unless it's necessary.

- We can be pretty sure this isn't a marketing thing to make the owners feel special, because the M division's turbo engines for the X5 M and X6 M do not specify the 10w-60. They run on the 5w-30 like almost every other BMW.

- Any time a manufacturer specifies something so unusual, and insists on it so adamantly for so long, it's worth listening.

- The Castrol 10w-60 in question may be one of the toughest street oils money can buy, period.


Now, this isn't to say there is definitely no alternative. Mobil insists their 0w-40 will do just fine, and given how cautious they are with what they say, I'm inclined to believe them. There are also a few alternatives in the thread below, although it is probably too soon to tell how those cars will hold up in the long run:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1570914

Bottom line: It's a gamble, and we don't even know enough to say how safe that gamble is. Unless you're particularly adventurous, I'd recommend sticking with BMW's recommended oil.


2008 BMW M3
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: Max_Wander] #1600098
09/14/09 03:34 PM
09/14/09 03:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
What a band-aid solution for a poorly designed, yet highly regarded engine.

You're thinking of the S54 from the E46 M3, yes?

The failures were a result of manufacturing defects and a couple of design oversights. Those have long since been corrected.

That engine is now totally reliable. Despite being undersquare and producing over 100 hp/L, it will run at 8,000 RPM all day for years without even blinking. A friend of mine has over 100,000 miles on his, including several thousand track miles. The valvetrain looks like new, and so do his acceleration times. Not one drop of oil consumption, either.

(He uses the factory oil, by the way. wink )


2008 BMW M3
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: d00df00d] #1600106
09/14/09 03:41 PM
09/14/09 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,365
orwellian sheep land?
Max_Wander Offline
Max_Wander  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,365
orwellian sheep land?
Yeah the S54 was an example of pushing the limits of displacement on the block. A good engine builder would hold the rod length as a very integral part of reliablity. It seems BMW tried to go the Honda route, very short rod (which helps excite movement at the intake port), combined with wild camming. It works, yes, but it's not too reliable. Even Honda has limits, which is why they overbored the H22 and cut the stroke comapred to the H23 (and applies to F22C as well).

Do you think BMW is just playing it safe with the S65 and the special 10w60 ester lube? Because I mean, you're totally right about the 10w60 being some hardcore stuff! Nothing on the shelf of WalMart can compare, really.

Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: Max_Wander] #1600124
09/14/09 04:00 PM
09/14/09 04:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Do you think BMW is just playing it safe with the S65 and the special 10w60 ester lube? Because I mean, you're totally right about the 10w60 being some hardcore stuff! Nothing on the shelf of WalMart can compare, really.

That's a good question.

In a way, all oil recommendations are "playing it safe" because you always want the largest operating margins possible. But what I think you mean to ask is, is it safe to assume that the engine doesn't actually need something that tough? That is certainly possible.

At the same time, I feel like it defeats the purpose of a BMW to push the limits of performance at the expense of safety/longevity. Plus, even with the 10w-60, the engine already has very little internal friction and highly efficient cooling. I don't think there is a lot to be gained by switching to a lighter oil, whereas there is certainly a lot to risk.


2008 BMW M3
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: tomcat27] #1600172
09/14/09 04:50 PM
09/14/09 04:50 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,112
Airlie Beach Australia
Doug Hillary Offline
Doug Hillary  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,112
Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
tomcat27 - A previous Poster said this:
"The failures were a result of manufacturing defects and a couple of design oversights. Those have long since been corrected."

The faults were various and concerned the lubrication system to some degree. The 10W-60 lubricant was a quick "fix it" solution at the time

BMWs typically run with quite hot oil temperatures and I was always amazed at what they were in my Z3 2.8. In the M3 130C was quite common and a "cut off" point!

Mobil recommend M1 0W-40 or their semi-synthetic 10W-40 here in OZ and in New Zealand. Castrol recommend similar viscosities

You can safely use M1 TDT 5W-40 (Delvac 1 5W-40) or its new quivalent in NA

I used this lubricant in my Z3


Regards
Doug
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: d00df00d] #1600243
09/14/09 06:31 PM
09/14/09 06:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,560
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,560
Silicon Valley
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

- Any time a manufacturer specifies something so unusual, and insists on it so adamantly for so long, it's worth listening.


As an engineer, I can say that when a manufacturer try something like this, it is to hide a design defect that has no cost effective work around.

I don't think it is just the viscosity, but the additive package is also hacked to provide such a band-aid solution to the problem.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: PandaBear] #1600281
09/14/09 06:51 PM
09/14/09 06:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,408
PA
Fine. Let's grant that for the sake of argument. That's not exactly a good reason not to use the thing in question, is it?


2008 BMW M3
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: PandaBear] #1600284
09/14/09 06:52 PM
09/14/09 06:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,756
CA
BuickGN Offline
BuickGN  Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,756
CA
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

- Any time a manufacturer specifies something so unusual, and insists on it so adamantly for so long, it's worth listening.


As an engineer, I can say that when a manufacturer try something like this, it is to hide a design defect that has no cost effective work around.

I don't think it is just the viscosity, but the additive package is also hacked to provide such a band-aid solution to the problem.


Sounds like a large assumption. Doug commented on the high oil temps in many BMWs. Maybe an 8,500rpm semi large displacement engine needs the HTHS. Remember, this thing is made to be run all out for hours on end without breaking.


84 Buick GN. [email protected] old times. 602hp 620lbs.
06 Acura TL. Lots of suspension and brake mods.
Re: BMW M3 calls for 10w-60 - what to use? [Re: PandaBear] #1600297
09/14/09 07:04 PM
09/14/09 07:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,995
Toronto-ish, Canada
Craig in Canada Offline
Craig in Canada  Offline
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,995
Toronto-ish, Canada
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

- Any time a manufacturer specifies something so unusual, and insists on it so adamantly for so long, it's worth listening.


As an engineer, I can say that when a manufacturer try something like this, it is to hide a design defect that has no cost effective work around.

I don't think it is just the viscosity, but the additive package is also hacked to provide such a band-aid solution to the problem.


That comment may have had a lot of truth back when the S54 was first spinning rod bearings. Several years and generations of M engines down the road, I highly doubt the same "design defect" is still present with no workaround and simply being hidden by 10W60.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 5

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™