Are there any four passenger SUV's with excellent bad road capabilities that get better than 21 overall mpg? If the Jeep Wrangler (16.5 mpg) is the gold standard for off road capabilities, how does a cross over like the Toyota RAV-4 or the Ford Escape compare?
4WD Off Road And MPG?
- Thread starter carock
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Try a Frontier Crew Cab. Gets me almost 25 mpg highway at 60 mph.
bad conditions? or off road conditions? I would thing something with a lower center of gravity (more car based) with a good awd system would be better than a Jeep or truck with 4wd for normal bad stuff like winter and what not?
I'd look into a Forrester/Outback. Still unibody, but locking diffs.
A CRV/Rav4/Escape or my Highlander is good for logging roads, snow, grass... much worse than anything with locking differentials, better tires and more clearance/protected bottom.
Guess it depends on how you define "excellent" because I doubt there's anything "excellent" with 21 mpg combined!
A CRV/Rav4/Escape or my Highlander is good for logging roads, snow, grass... much worse than anything with locking differentials, better tires and more clearance/protected bottom.
Guess it depends on how you define "excellent" because I doubt there's anything "excellent" with 21 mpg combined!
No. Once you favor the vehicle construction for rugged offroad use you compormise street performance and mileage. Hig clearance. Solid axles, body armor and larger tires and a vehicle body designed for drivere visibility(big flat windshield give a good upright driver position) of the area around him/her all are tough on gas milage.
You will find to get better mileage thing that help offroad are reduced. Lower ground clearance sloped windshields that reduces visibility and a less rugged suspension and overall consturction help gas mileage. But are not desirable in true offroad use.
You will find to get better mileage thing that help offroad are reduced. Lower ground clearance sloped windshields that reduces visibility and a less rugged suspension and overall consturction help gas mileage. But are not desirable in true offroad use.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
I'd look into a Forrester/Outback. Still unibody, but locking diffs.
I personally wouldn't consider either of those an offroad vehicle. Not enough ground clearance, poor angles of attack and departure, too many soft spots in the underbelly to get torn up. GREAT performance AWDs, but not real offroaders in the Jeep or (old) Land Cruiser tradition.
I'd look into a Forrester/Outback. Still unibody, but locking diffs.
I personally wouldn't consider either of those an offroad vehicle. Not enough ground clearance, poor angles of attack and departure, too many soft spots in the underbelly to get torn up. GREAT performance AWDs, but not real offroaders in the Jeep or (old) Land Cruiser tradition.
"but not real offroaders in the Jeep or (old) Land Cruiser tradition."
I agree. But if you can get 20 mpg combined out of a Land Cruiser, you should probably be working for NASA.
I agree. But if you can get 20 mpg combined out of a Land Cruiser, you should probably be working for NASA.
New? Or used?
I'm biased because i own one, but what about the Jeep Cherokee?
Made from 1984 until 2001, so theres still plenty out there.
HUGE aftermarket parts support.
Same 4.0L I6 as the older Wranglers / CJ's.
Similar suspention. And lighter in weight.
Yep the Cherokee's weigh in at about 3100 pounds.
(unibody construction)
Mine gets about 25mpg hwy, about 15 city on 30x9.50x15 BFG-AT's.
Although, just fyi, offroading and mpg are not often used in the same sentence.
I'm biased because i own one, but what about the Jeep Cherokee?
Made from 1984 until 2001, so theres still plenty out there.
HUGE aftermarket parts support.
Same 4.0L I6 as the older Wranglers / CJ's.
Similar suspention. And lighter in weight.
Yep the Cherokee's weigh in at about 3100 pounds.
(unibody construction)
Mine gets about 25mpg hwy, about 15 city on 30x9.50x15 BFG-AT's.
Although, just fyi, offroading and mpg are not often used in the same sentence.
But if you bring an outback to some locations it will get 0 MPG. If you have a need or desire to go those places the toll is reduced fuel economy.. but at least you get to drive back.
Forget the forester! You need an old school subaru...Should get in the 20's for mpg.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
"but not real offroaders in the Jeep or (old) Land Cruiser tradition."
I agree. But if you can get 20 mpg combined out of a Land Cruiser, you should probably be working for NASA.
I can get 18 combined/ 21 highway out of a Cherokee... good enough for me ;-)
Oh wait, they don't MAKE the Cherokee anymore.... See why I don't even bother with new cars most of the time?
Actually the current Liberty (KK) is a pretty good Cherokee replacement, IMO a little better than the original Liberty (KJ). But its still only good for 16 combined/22 highway. The whole point is that the better a vehicle is for offroading, the worse the fuel economy is going to be. No way around that to my knowledge. High ground clearance, rugged drivetrain, heavy solid axles (rear at a minimum, preferably front too), and armor all decrease fuel efficiency.
"but not real offroaders in the Jeep or (old) Land Cruiser tradition."
I agree. But if you can get 20 mpg combined out of a Land Cruiser, you should probably be working for NASA.
I can get 18 combined/ 21 highway out of a Cherokee... good enough for me ;-)
Oh wait, they don't MAKE the Cherokee anymore.... See why I don't even bother with new cars most of the time?
Actually the current Liberty (KK) is a pretty good Cherokee replacement, IMO a little better than the original Liberty (KJ). But its still only good for 16 combined/22 highway. The whole point is that the better a vehicle is for offroading, the worse the fuel economy is going to be. No way around that to my knowledge. High ground clearance, rugged drivetrain, heavy solid axles (rear at a minimum, preferably front too), and armor all decrease fuel efficiency.
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Originally Posted By: carock
Are there any four passenger SUV's with excellent bad road capabilities that get better than 21 overall mpg? If the Jeep Wrangler (16.5 mpg) is the gold standard for off road capabilities, how does a cross over like the Toyota RAV-4 or the Ford Escape compare?
I consider "bad roads" to be weather related issues and "Off Road" to be off pavement.
If you're talking about snow and ice conditions, any 4wd car or SUV should perform will with the right tires. The cars have less clearance so you may be able to find snow deep enough to be a problem.
If you're talking about off pavement, which the Jeep Wrangler leads me to believe, unless you get the Rubicon there are several other rigs that have comparable capability. A Toyota Tacoma TRD with a rear locker should do really well off road, they're just a little larger to deal with. Another option is the FJ Cuiser. It all depends on what you want to do. I like to off road in my 89 4Runner (17 mpg mixed with 22RE and 35 inch tires) in places that only the Rubicon versions could keep up.
If you're really planning to go off road, stay away from anything that is based on a car chassis. I call them Sport Utility Cars, or SUCs. Example, Toyota 4Runner is a truck chassis while a Highlander is a car chassis, they are almost identical in size. Another thing is to make sure you have a real 4wd system.
Oh, lockers are BAD on ice unless you are planning to go slow. My 4Runner is locked front and rear and is a beast above 30 mph, but I can drive in the ditch if need be.
Are there any four passenger SUV's with excellent bad road capabilities that get better than 21 overall mpg? If the Jeep Wrangler (16.5 mpg) is the gold standard for off road capabilities, how does a cross over like the Toyota RAV-4 or the Ford Escape compare?
I consider "bad roads" to be weather related issues and "Off Road" to be off pavement.
If you're talking about snow and ice conditions, any 4wd car or SUV should perform will with the right tires. The cars have less clearance so you may be able to find snow deep enough to be a problem.
If you're talking about off pavement, which the Jeep Wrangler leads me to believe, unless you get the Rubicon there are several other rigs that have comparable capability. A Toyota Tacoma TRD with a rear locker should do really well off road, they're just a little larger to deal with. Another option is the FJ Cuiser. It all depends on what you want to do. I like to off road in my 89 4Runner (17 mpg mixed with 22RE and 35 inch tires) in places that only the Rubicon versions could keep up.
If you're really planning to go off road, stay away from anything that is based on a car chassis. I call them Sport Utility Cars, or SUCs. Example, Toyota 4Runner is a truck chassis while a Highlander is a car chassis, they are almost identical in size. Another thing is to make sure you have a real 4wd system.
Oh, lockers are BAD on ice unless you are planning to go slow. My 4Runner is locked front and rear and is a beast above 30 mph, but I can drive in the ditch if need be.
I thought 4WD with modern traction control made the locking differentials obsolete. Have I bought too much marketing hype? The one thing I can live with is less than stellar ground clearance. The one thing I need would be the steep approach and exit angles, so overhang is a bad deal for me. By bad roads, I mean dirt roads with rocks,mud, and ruts, but still a real road that gets graded once a decade. I don't need to go boulder hopping...yet.I am primarily interested in getting to campsites in Canyon Lands, Escalante, and the Sierras. The Forest Service maintains the roads, but not very often. I often wonder how the Mexicans get all over Baja in their Cadillac De Villes and VW's.
If your car is small enough, and you have lots of hands, you can pry it out of a rut with a small tree, and keep going.
Originally Posted By: carock
I thought 4WD with modern traction control made the locking differentials obsolete. Have I bought too much marketing hype? The one thing I can live with is less than stellar ground clearance. The one thing I need would be the steep approach and exit angles, so overhang is a bad deal for me. By bad roads, I mean dirt roads with rocks,mud, and ruts, but still a real road that gets graded once a decade. I don't need to go boulder hopping...yet.I am primarily interested in getting to campsites in Canyon Lands, Escalante, and the Sierras. The Forest Service maintains the roads, but not very often. I often wonder how the Mexicans get all over Baja in their Cadillac De Villes and VW's.
Nothing replaces a true locking differential off road, but you can take a 4wd with modern traction control a lot of places as long as you have a low range transfer case. It sounds like a Jeep (Wrangler, Grand or that other one tha twas mentioned) would work well for you or a Toyota truck would work with an aftermarket rear bumper that can handle getting dirt on it. People do some pretty difficult wheeling in Xterra's as well so maybe the Nissan products would be something to consider as well. Take a look at the aftermarket for any rig you consider so you have options if you ever want to add to what you have.
I thought 4WD with modern traction control made the locking differentials obsolete. Have I bought too much marketing hype? The one thing I can live with is less than stellar ground clearance. The one thing I need would be the steep approach and exit angles, so overhang is a bad deal for me. By bad roads, I mean dirt roads with rocks,mud, and ruts, but still a real road that gets graded once a decade. I don't need to go boulder hopping...yet.I am primarily interested in getting to campsites in Canyon Lands, Escalante, and the Sierras. The Forest Service maintains the roads, but not very often. I often wonder how the Mexicans get all over Baja in their Cadillac De Villes and VW's.
Nothing replaces a true locking differential off road, but you can take a 4wd with modern traction control a lot of places as long as you have a low range transfer case. It sounds like a Jeep (Wrangler, Grand or that other one tha twas mentioned) would work well for you or a Toyota truck would work with an aftermarket rear bumper that can handle getting dirt on it. People do some pretty difficult wheeling in Xterra's as well so maybe the Nissan products would be something to consider as well. Take a look at the aftermarket for any rig you consider so you have options if you ever want to add to what you have.
Double cab Tacoma TRD Off Road short bed. 4x4, locking rear, 09+ models all have Auto LSD (computer controlled open differential) in addition to the rear locker. Plus traction control for the 2Hi and 4Hi modes. Locker in 4wd models can be locked only in 4Low, but it can be easily modified to lock in 2Hi and 4Hi.
Automatic gets better gas mileage than manual (different gearing)
Before I sold mine (05 DC TRD OR Auto V6), I got 18 MPG in stop-and-go traffic, 24 MPG on highway.
TRD OR edition is more than capable in stock from with progressive front coils and Bileisten shocks all around.
Automatic gets better gas mileage than manual (different gearing)
Before I sold mine (05 DC TRD OR Auto V6), I got 18 MPG in stop-and-go traffic, 24 MPG on highway.
TRD OR edition is more than capable in stock from with progressive front coils and Bileisten shocks all around.
Originally Posted By: OAS
I'm biased because i own one, but what about the Jeep Cherokee?
My 4.0L Cherokee does 25 mpg on the highway easy, and I typically get 21 around town combined. That's with a pretty heavy foot, too. Might push it down to the high 19's - low 20's range with heavy A/C use.
I attribute the good mileage to stock size tires and the manual transmission. Seems like the MT models do a good margin better with fuel economy.
I'm biased because i own one, but what about the Jeep Cherokee?
My 4.0L Cherokee does 25 mpg on the highway easy, and I typically get 21 around town combined. That's with a pretty heavy foot, too. Might push it down to the high 19's - low 20's range with heavy A/C use.
I attribute the good mileage to stock size tires and the manual transmission. Seems like the MT models do a good margin better with fuel economy.
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I'd buy a used Grand Cherokee with the 4.0L Inline 6.
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