Rotella 5W40, 8024 miles, Honda ST1100

[Rick_A]

1999 Honda ST1100
Water-cooled V4
Shared engine/trans. oil, wet clutch

Comments:
Shell Rotella 5W40 oil the CI-4 version
Bosch automotive oil filter
FP3000 and Redline Lead Substitute in the gas.

I'm not too worried about the Sodium, it is not coolant. I am using Redline Lead Substitute
in the fuel to help protect the valves and it is Sodium-based. I have used it before and it
shows up in the oil tests.

This oil has been in the bike a little longer than normal.


Blackstone Labs Test results:

Oil...............Rotella 15W40 CJ4 ....Max Life 10W40....Delvac 15W40....Rotella 5W40
Filter............1536 Napa Gold....PL14612 Purolator....PL14612...........Bosch 3423
Total Miles....97,045................110,996................119,028................127,052
Miles on oil....8,017.................8,016...................8,062...................8,024
Time on Oil.....5 Mo...................2 1/2 Mo............3 1/2 Mo................6 Mo
Make up oil......0.......................0..........................0.......................0
.
Aluminum.........9...................8...........................10........................7
Chromium.........0....................1.........................1.........................1
Iron................23...................14....................14.....................16
Copper............3....................3.....................3.......................5
Lead...............3....................3......................3.......................4
Tin.................0....................1......................0......................0
Moly...............249..................82....................51....................9
Nickel.............0....................0.....................0.....................0
Manganese......0.....................0......................0......................0
Silver..............0....................0.....................0.....................0
Titanium..........0....................0......................0......................0
Potassium........2....................2.......................2.......................3
Boron.............13...................37.....................27......................7
Silicon.............12...................12....................11....................11
Sodium.............10....................332....................343....................262
Calcium............2588....................1719.................1169.................2722
Magnesium.........9.......................827...................735....................92
Phosphorus......742........................963...................806...................1051
Zinc.................863........................1300...................1018...................1276
Barium.............0..........................0........................0........................1
Flashpoint F......385........................410.......................385.......................390
Fuel................ Antifreeze........0......................... .66........................ ??........................ ??
Water.............0..........................0...........................0...........................0
Insoluables......0.2........................0.3........................0.3........................0.2
SUS Visc@210f..61.5........................68.4......................66.0......................66.1
cST Visc@100c..10.64.......................12.54.......................11.89.......................11.91
TBN.................3.1.........................3.1........................4.2........................6.1

 

[Quattro Pete]

TBN held up nicely.

I'm currently running RTS 5w-40 in an '01 Jetta 2.0. Planning to take it up to 10k miles or 1 year, whichever comes first.

 

[02zx9r]

wow great results

what oil are you going to stick with or havent decided yet?

 

[sweezy722]

Looks good Rick.

How did the Max Life shift and did you notice the clutch feeling odd? I have been thinking of trying the Max Life in my shared sump. I like the numbers you posted on the Max Life. I currently have Super Tech 15-40 for summer but always like to go back to 10-40 for winter. I have tried the Rotella T in the winter and my shift was stiffer than 10-40. I don't really understand but it was.

Your numbers are great and thanks for posting. I can never seem to go that long.

 

[dnewton3]

You know what this tells me?

That the engine really could not care less about what oil it runs. It's well broken in, it's performing admirably, and about any decent oil in the proper grade will suffice.

Sure, there was an incident of high FE with the CJ-4 Rotella, but that is not unexpected as an isolated event. This unit has over 100k miles on it, after all. It would be nice to see the unit averages, if they have been kept over the last 50k miles or so.

This UOA is impressive in that it's mundane; there is nothing to pick at. It's strength is in the fact that it's ordinary; all ST-1100s run this well, and that speaks volumes for the engine design, and the riding patterns of the operator.

It also stabs at the heart of the argument from people who OCI their bikes every 2k miles with $8/quart "motorcycle synthetic" oils. Seriously, just how much "better" does anyone think a high-end PAO would do?

These UOAs are proof that engine lubricant system design is a key factor in the lifecycle of an engine; as long as it's slippery and flows, this engine would like it. The balance of bearing clearances, bearing materials, component materials and hardness, filtration, etc all show that this engine/tranny is just designed well right from the beginning.

I see no reason why 10k mile OCIs could not happen, especially with the TBN of the RTS. All the UOAs show a bit of grade shearing, and yet, there seems to be zero effect to the wear metals. This might be why Honda now OKs the use of 10w-30 oils in many of their water-cooled bikes. The heavier grade oils may not be necessary for good "protection" from wear.

Kudos for a great bike, and fine care, of a classic design.

 

[sunruh]

very nice report and very nice reply from dnewton.

exactly, why pay more for the synth when convent shows the same?

if i were gonna pick an oil for your bike from your 4 uoa's, it would be the maxlife 10w40 followed closely by delvac.

i would be REAL interested to see what supertech 15w40 ci-4 would do and give as results.

 

[Rick_A]

02zx9r:

After all of this testing I no longer have a favorite brand but I am sure happy with the HDEOs. I’ll buy what ever is on sale or more convenient to get.

sweezy722

I didn’t notice any difference in the clutch or in the shifting. My ST has always ‘clunked’ a lot and just doesn’t feel real smooth, especially from first to second

dnewton3

Good comments about the shearing and 10w30 oils.
And yes, it does look like the RTS could be left in much longer doesn’t it?

As for the unit averages my oil testing goes back at least 60,000 (maybe 100,000??) miles with Blackstone and the unit average for Aluminum is 10 and for iron it is 22.

Interestingly the aluminum suddenly dropped from the teens to below 10 at about 100,000 miles and the iron dropped from the mid 20s to the mid teens at about 110,000 miles. I guess that’s about when it was finally broken in


sunruh

Yeah, I’ll need to try the supertech some day but I already have enough HDEO stashed for another 50,000 miles or so. Maybe I could sneak a test in it before long though

 

[dnewton3]

"but I already have enough HDEO stashed for another 50,000 miles or so"

Dude - you're as bad as the rest of us ... Truly an afflicted BITOG'er. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem!

 

[sunruh]

rick,
good for you!!!

yeah i still have 2 cases of sub dollar oil i like.

you also may be seeing some of the other oil in your uoa's.

when i do my test, i run it once with the new oil, oci and then run it again and then test it. existing oil is pretty much gone by the time i do a test.

 

[BigJohn]

I really want to thank you for spending the 'dough' for these UOA's. I have been pondering, for the past 2 months, what oil I am going to use going forward. You see, my last OCI was with a $60 Amsoil solution. While I love the oil, I really need to come back to my senses and stay in the $20 range (if not the $10 range with a group II).

Based on the posted UOA's.....for me it will be hands-down Rotella 5w40. I have a oil pan guard that is difficult to remove in order to do an oil and filter change, so I will stay with synthetic and start with 5k OCI's, rather than 2,500-3,500 OCI's with group II. (My owners manual calls for 3,500 OCI's)

Rotella T Synthetic will be for me going forward!

 

[dsmith41]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
You know what this tells me?

This UOA is impressive in that it's mundane; there is nothing to pick at.


How about that it has sheared down to SAE 30? That seems to be common in the UOAs I have seen with Rotella in motorcycles on BITOG. I'm not trying to start anything. I'm running Rotella in my bike right now. But having said that, I think I might switch to something else after this riding season.

 

[dnewton3]

To some degree, you're right. But the others exhibited shearing as well. Doesn't really matter, because the wear indicators are all well within line. Just because there is some shearing does not mean the engine isn't being protected.

My buddy near D.C. has an ST1100 with about 130k miles on it. Still rides to this day. OCIs at the Honda dealer every 8k miles with their bulk GN-4 oil (seen a VOA on this stuff? Basically fleet oil.) And yet his bike continues to run fine. My point is that the engine design and operation are so robust that it really doesn't seem to care much what oil you feed it ... That can't be said for all bikes, but certaily the ST1100 family seems to fair this way.

 

[warchildindy]

The recommended grade may be a reasonable and predetermined starting point for a motor oil, but not the absolute minimum or maximum, that a particular engine can handle.

I imagine most manufacturers have run engines, from the high end to the low end for shear testing, to see what does and doesn't, cause measured metal damage.

Then it would be possible to determine, what type and grade of oil to use, based on what is currently available, from the oil industry. Dino, blended, synthetic, etc.

The top weight grade is probably a safety cushion, to account for shearing and wear, in the average oil.

My point is that some engines, can possibly handle lower oil grades, that is several weight grades lower, before metal damage occurs.

I would guess that is where a measured and predetermined oci, would apply, before damage occurs.

Obviuosly, not all motors are not created equally.

My current car dropped one weight grade for CAFI. The engine was'nt redesigned.

If there isn't any measured damage or negative trending in oil analysis, then this oil is probably, good to go.

My current bike has (2) different oil weight recommendations, supposedly for seasonal operations.

I would imagine, that the lower oil weight recommendation, could even shear another grade, before any metal damage occurred.

 

[whitesands]

That's a very good point....Alot of manuals reccomend OCI's much longer than most motorcycle riding enthusiest are comfortable with and they reccomend their own generic oil brand as well...As fast as we've seen those oils shear, you would have to imagine that the engineers took some of that into accont when making their OCI recommendations.

 

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
rick,
good for you!!!

yeah i still have 2 cases of sub dollar oil i like.

you also may be seeing some of the other oil in your uoa's.

when i do my test, i run it once with the new oil, oci and then run it again and then test it. existing oil is pretty much gone by the time i do a test.



Sunruh, I read that you do a lot of testing and love WalMart oil.....but I can't find a single VOA or UOA posted by you. Inquiring minds want to know....show us your results....

(or maybe....I just can't figure out the darn search function on this site!!! uhg!)

 

[BigJohn]

First of all....Rick, thanks a ton for posting all your results. We all appreciate you sharing and the efforts.

But I am confused by the numbers...check out the columns and look at the differences between the first table and the second table. Which numbers are correct?


Originally Posted By: Rick_A

Blackstone Labs Test results:

Oil...............Rotella 15W40 CJ4 ....Max Life 10W40....Delvac 15W40....Rotella 5W40
Filter............1536 Napa Gold....PL14612 Purolator....PL14612...........Bosch 3423
Total Miles....97,045................110,996................119,028................127,052
Miles on oil....8,017.................8,016...................8,062...................8,024
Time on Oil.....5 Mo...................2 1/2 Mo............3 1/2 Mo................6 Mo
Make up oil......0.......................0..........................0.......................0
.
Aluminum.........9...................8...........................10........................7
Chromium.........0....................1.........................1.........................1
Iron................23...................14....................14.....................16
Copper............3....................3.....................3.......................5
Lead...............3....................3......................3.......................4
Tin.................0....................1......................0......................0
Moly...............249..................82....................51....................9
Nickel.............0....................0.....................0.....................0
Manganese......0.....................0......................0......................0
Silver..............0....................0.....................0.....................0
Titanium..........0....................0......................0......................0
Potassium........2....................2.......................2.......................3
Boron.............13...................37.....................27......................7
Silicon.............12...................12....................11....................11
Sodium.............10....................332....................343....................262
Calcium............2588....................1719.................1169.................2722
Magnesium.........9.......................827...................735....................92
Phosphorus......742........................963...................806...................1051
Zinc.................863........................1300...................1018...................1276
Barium.............0..........................0........................0........................1
Flashpoint F......385........................410.......................385.......................390
Fuel................ Antifreeze........0......................... .66........................ ??........................ ??
Water.............0..........................0...........................0...........................0
Insoluables......0.2........................0.3........................0.3........................0.2
SUS Visc@210f..61.5........................68.4......................66.0......................66.1
cST Visc@100c..10.64.......................12.54.......................11.89.......................11.91
TBN.................3.1.........................3.1........................4.2........................6.1



Oil...............GC0W30.........Honda 10W40 Rotella 15W40 CJ4 ....Max Life 10W40
Filter............3423 Bosch.....1536 Napa Gold....1536 Napa Gold....1536 Napa Gold
Total Miles....73,008...........81,081...........89,028.................97,045
Miles on oil....7,975.............8,073.............7,947..................8,017
Time on Oil.....5 1/2 mo........4 Mo...........3 Mo.....................5 Mo
Make up oil......0................0....................0.....................0
.
Aluminum.........13...............12..................13...................9
Chromium.........1................1...................1.....................0
Iron................41..............25..............24........................23
Copper............4................3................3.........................3
Lead...............2................3................4........................3
Tin.................0................1................0.......................0
Moly..............36..............50..............8..........................249
Nickel.............0................1................0........................0
Manganese......1.................0.................0.......................0
Silver..............0...............0...............0.........................0
Titanium..........0................0................0.......................0
Potassium........3................2................7.......................2
Boron..............11.............124.............32......................13
Silicon.............14.............12.............12.......................12
Sodium.............175...........58...........19........................10
Calcium............2290.........1988.........2347......................2588
Magnesium........456...........65...........17..........................9
Phosphorus.......906..........815..........956........................742
Zinc.................1140.........1053.........1264....................863
Barium.............0..............0..............0.......................0
Flashpoint F......410...........390...........400.....................385
Fuel................ Antifreeze........0.35..........?..........0............................0
Water.............0..............0..............0........................0
Insoluables......0.3...........0.2...........0.2.......................0.2
SUS Visc@210f..60.3.........60.8.........71.5......................61.5
cST Visc@100c..10.29........10.45........13.35...................10.64
TBN.................7.2...........3.6...........4.2...................3.1

 

[jsharp]

Originally Posted By: BigJohn


Sunruh, I read that you do a lot of testing and love WalMart oil.....but I can't find a single VOA or UOA posted by you. Inquiring minds want to know....show us your results....

(or maybe....I just can't figure out the darn search function on this site!!! uhg!)


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=7908