Here goes another thread.
Valvoline - Myth vs Reality
- Thread starter Art_Vandelay
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Hey Stevie, sometimes the truth hurts.
If I pay top dollar for a product I expect top end performance, service and reputation.
If I pay top dollar for a product I expect top end performance, service and reputation.
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On the Valvoline note,I`ve tried Synpower,Maxlife,and white bottle in my gf`s Olds. White bottle runs smoother and car is more responsive. I`d choose wb over any of their synths.
Originally Posted By: mva
Hey Stevie, sometimes the truth hurts.
If I pay top dollar for a product I expect top end performance, service and reputation.
I agree with you, I'm just looking for catastrophic failure with M1 products that clearly showed high iron in UOA's etc. I haven't seen any yet.
On another note I use Amsoil so I probably never will unless someone posts it here.
Amsoil gives me my monies worth IMO, so I stick with them.
Hey Stevie, sometimes the truth hurts.
If I pay top dollar for a product I expect top end performance, service and reputation.
I agree with you, I'm just looking for catastrophic failure with M1 products that clearly showed high iron in UOA's etc. I haven't seen any yet.
On another note I use Amsoil so I probably never will unless someone posts it here.
Amsoil gives me my monies worth IMO, so I stick with them.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I agree with you, I'm just looking for catastrophic failure with M1 products that clearly showed high iron in UOA's etc. I haven't seen any yet.
On another note I use Amsoil so I probably never will unless someone posts it here.
Amsoil gives me my monies worth IMO, so I stick with them.
Ok, I agree with you as well - Amsoil products are excellent. They typically aren't cheap but they are high performance products that offer good value.
M1, Valvoline and other mainstream synthetic oils are also very good but not in the exotic realm as amsoil or others such as RP.
I agree with you, I'm just looking for catastrophic failure with M1 products that clearly showed high iron in UOA's etc. I haven't seen any yet.
On another note I use Amsoil so I probably never will unless someone posts it here.
Amsoil gives me my monies worth IMO, so I stick with them.
Ok, I agree with you as well - Amsoil products are excellent. They typically aren't cheap but they are high performance products that offer good value.
M1, Valvoline and other mainstream synthetic oils are also very good but not in the exotic realm as amsoil or others such as RP.
I know they aren't cheap, it's because they don't produce their own basestocks and have to purchase from a third party, they are also smaller and have smaller volume than say Pennzoil.
I'm willing to pay the extra cost because their product stands up to the test in my application and because I would rather support a smaller company.
I'm willing to pay the extra cost because their product stands up to the test in my application and because I would rather support a smaller company.
Originally Posted By: mva
If the claims by Castrol, Valvoline and QS(Sopus) were false, Exxon would sue all three in a heartbeat.
How can they prove the test results are false, when the result details are not even published? Can they prove that the current Mobil 1 5W-30 meets specs? Yes, they already did that with the API, and the API is satisfied.
Can you prove that you stopped beating your wife/girlfriend/dog?
If the claims by Castrol, Valvoline and QS(Sopus) were false, Exxon would sue all three in a heartbeat.
How can they prove the test results are false, when the result details are not even published? Can they prove that the current Mobil 1 5W-30 meets specs? Yes, they already did that with the API, and the API is satisfied.
Can you prove that you stopped beating your wife/girlfriend/dog?
I think we've seen the last of the Seq IVA wars. It's run its course outside of BITOG. But since it's not dead here, I'll add some stuff for entertainment purposes.
Ashland got what it wanted: a lot of exposure as a "superior" product at the expense of the market leader, if not quite enough to substantially raise Valvoline's market share or increase its apparent value enough to make a profit by selling the brand.
Mobil also got what they wanted: they took a slap in the face but suffered no lasting damage to their name or practices. They've smartly played for time, kept quiet to avoid participating in a media circus, and avoided any legal entanglements that might expose past formulations to scrutiny. I'd bet all the BP and CononcoPhillips stock Mark888 doesn't own that every one of Mobil's current formulations passes its certification trials with flying colors.
To me this farce seems more like blackmail than anything else. Ashland caught Mobil with their pants down (or in a position where they could not prove their pants were up
), turned it into cheap but effective advertising and increased sales, and will now probably shut up. As time passes, no one will care if a small run of Mobil's products allegedly didn't pass the certs printed on the label... and the ancient results from an independent lab won't have much value to Ashland, either as fuel for an ad campaign or as supporting evidence in court if Mobil decides that enough is enough.
Ashland got what it wanted: a lot of exposure as a "superior" product at the expense of the market leader, if not quite enough to substantially raise Valvoline's market share or increase its apparent value enough to make a profit by selling the brand.
Mobil also got what they wanted: they took a slap in the face but suffered no lasting damage to their name or practices. They've smartly played for time, kept quiet to avoid participating in a media circus, and avoided any legal entanglements that might expose past formulations to scrutiny. I'd bet all the BP and CononcoPhillips stock Mark888 doesn't own that every one of Mobil's current formulations passes its certification trials with flying colors.
To me this farce seems more like blackmail than anything else. Ashland caught Mobil with their pants down (or in a position where they could not prove their pants were up
Originally Posted By: Mark888
mva said:Can you prove that you stopped beating your wife/girlfriend/dog?
Originally Posted By: tropic
I'd bet all the BP and CononcoPhillips stock Mark888 doesn't own that every one of Mobil's current formulations passes its certification trials with flying colors.
I sold all my BP and ConocoPhillips stock recently, and also my DXO stock (tied to oil futures). Made a nice profit on BP and DXO, only broke even on ConocoPhillips.
But I still have my trade confirmations from Charles Schwab if you want to make a wager about whether I was telling the truth. We could hire an 3 independent auditors to verify it. We both put up $100K in escrow and winner takes all (less estimated auditor and escrow expenses of about $25K). Please let me know, I can always use some extra cash.
I'd bet all the BP and CononcoPhillips stock Mark888 doesn't own that every one of Mobil's current formulations passes its certification trials with flying colors.
I sold all my BP and ConocoPhillips stock recently, and also my DXO stock (tied to oil futures). Made a nice profit on BP and DXO, only broke even on ConocoPhillips.
But I still have my trade confirmations from Charles Schwab if you want to make a wager about whether I was telling the truth. We could hire an 3 independent auditors to verify it. We both put up $100K in escrow and winner takes all (less estimated auditor and escrow expenses of about $25K). Please let me know, I can always use some extra cash.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
...Please let me know, I can always use some extra cash.
Nah, it's enough that I don't have to hear about it as evidence of your neutrality anymore.
Seriously, I enjoy many of your posts that don't mention XOM. I wonder where your vehemence comes from when someone mentions the Seq IVA test, XOM, or anything but praise of PAO base stocks.
...Please let me know, I can always use some extra cash.
Nah, it's enough that I don't have to hear about it as evidence of your neutrality anymore.
Seriously, I enjoy many of your posts that don't mention XOM. I wonder where your vehemence comes from when someone mentions the Seq IVA test, XOM, or anything but praise of PAO base stocks.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I suggest you PM him for the story before this turns into another M1 bashing thread.
Doug has torn down numerous engines with long OCI's using nothing but M1 and has shown the engines to be in perfect tolerances, including cylinder walls where the Iron is supposedly coming from.
Yes, but I doubt those engines were running M1 5W- 30, and the failed test and higher wear results only applies to that grade. Haven't seen any complaints about other M1 grades such as TDT 5W-40. Also, the previous SL formulations going back 5 years or more with a higher level of ZDDP may not have had this problem.
I suggest you PM him for the story before this turns into another M1 bashing thread.
Doug has torn down numerous engines with long OCI's using nothing but M1 and has shown the engines to be in perfect tolerances, including cylinder walls where the Iron is supposedly coming from.
Yes, but I doubt those engines were running M1 5W- 30, and the failed test and higher wear results only applies to that grade. Haven't seen any complaints about other M1 grades such as TDT 5W-40. Also, the previous SL formulations going back 5 years or more with a higher level of ZDDP may not have had this problem.
I enjoy reading these threads, and the theories about the test, why no one was sued etc. I'd be willing to bet if XOM had a case they would have sued the living [censored] out of all parties concerned, big or small without any hesitation. It is probably true that the average person who spends no time on BITOG could care less and has no idea what is going on or what went on. A victory for XOM would have given them a nice ad campaign as someone else mentioned.
Me I will continue not to use their products because of their poor attitude in handling some questions, and lousy customer service. OH wait, if I could get the oil for free through some deal, I'd consider it. LOL. Every oil hoarder looks for free oil
It would find its way into the mower, and beater car.
I've said 100 times before, IMO there are better oils for less money, with UOA's and customer testimony to back it up. Again JMO, and I totally respect all the BITOG'ers using Mobil 1 with great results. In the end they might have had the same or better results using something else, but they'll never know.
Me I will continue not to use their products because of their poor attitude in handling some questions, and lousy customer service. OH wait, if I could get the oil for free through some deal, I'd consider it. LOL. Every oil hoarder looks for free oil
I've said 100 times before, IMO there are better oils for less money, with UOA's and customer testimony to back it up. Again JMO, and I totally respect all the BITOG'ers using Mobil 1 with great results. In the end they might have had the same or better results using something else, but they'll never know.
Originally Posted By: tropic
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
My Yaris doesnt like Valvoline Synpower....
You posted this in another recent thread, and I was hella curious why. I think you mentioned that others on YarisWorld had similar experiences. Would you mind elaborating a bit? I kinda like Synpower in my 4cyl engines.
I put the 10w-30 in. Slow revving, not smooth running. Seemed like more than just a "grade" issue. Plus it not a synthetic - I've had it paying $$$ for fake synthetics that arent a grp iv/v base. No More. America has been bamboozeled.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
My Yaris doesnt like Valvoline Synpower....
You posted this in another recent thread, and I was hella curious why. I think you mentioned that others on YarisWorld had similar experiences. Would you mind elaborating a bit? I kinda like Synpower in my 4cyl engines.
I put the 10w-30 in. Slow revving, not smooth running. Seemed like more than just a "grade" issue. Plus it not a synthetic - I've had it paying $$$ for fake synthetics that arent a grp iv/v base. No More. America has been bamboozeled.
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Originally Posted By: Drivebelt
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I suggest you PM him for the story before this turns into another M1 bashing thread.
Doug has torn down numerous engines with long OCI's using nothing but M1 and has shown the engines to be in perfect tolerances, including cylinder walls where the Iron is supposedly coming from.
Yes, but I doubt those engines were running M1 5W- 30, and the failed test and higher wear results only applies to that grade. Haven't seen any complaints about other M1 grades such as TDT 5W-40. Also, the previous SL formulations going back 5 years or more with a higher level of ZDDP may not have had this problem.
A friend has a 2000 Ford Taurus and it has 295,000 miles on the 3.0 Duratech V6. He has only used M1 5-30 in the engine with 8-10,000 mile OCIs and it still is going stong.
Also my 07 Focus has had it's last OC with M1 5-30 now with 9,500 miles. I will be switching back to EP soon. Would you like to see a UOA on the presant oil when I drain it out?
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I suggest you PM him for the story before this turns into another M1 bashing thread.
Doug has torn down numerous engines with long OCI's using nothing but M1 and has shown the engines to be in perfect tolerances, including cylinder walls where the Iron is supposedly coming from.
Yes, but I doubt those engines were running M1 5W- 30, and the failed test and higher wear results only applies to that grade. Haven't seen any complaints about other M1 grades such as TDT 5W-40. Also, the previous SL formulations going back 5 years or more with a higher level of ZDDP may not have had this problem.
A friend has a 2000 Ford Taurus and it has 295,000 miles on the 3.0 Duratech V6. He has only used M1 5-30 in the engine with 8-10,000 mile OCIs and it still is going stong.
Also my 07 Focus has had it's last OC with M1 5-30 now with 9,500 miles. I will be switching back to EP soon. Would you like to see a UOA on the presant oil when I drain it out?
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Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The quoted material says Valvoline AND!!!! and independent lab ran multiple tests. It doesn't get any more clear than that.
... but how many 1994 Nissan KA24E, 2.4-liter, water-cooled, fuel-injected engine, 4-cylinder in-line, overhead camshaft with 2 intake valves, and 1 exhaust valve per cylinder engines are there in the world?
I think they just mock up the cam box, not the whole engine. Nissan parts distributors must be saying to Corporate, "gee we got a problem with these cams! Better make them harder so they wear 4x better!"
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The quoted material says Valvoline AND!!!! and independent lab ran multiple tests. It doesn't get any more clear than that.
... but how many 1994 Nissan KA24E, 2.4-liter, water-cooled, fuel-injected engine, 4-cylinder in-line, overhead camshaft with 2 intake valves, and 1 exhaust valve per cylinder engines are there in the world?
I think they just mock up the cam box, not the whole engine. Nissan parts distributors must be saying to Corporate, "gee we got a problem with these cams! Better make them harder so they wear 4x better!"
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I should have known this thread was going to be 8 X longer when I got home.
We were talking about Valvoline's admission that modern conventional and all Group III synthetics are essentially equivalent. Some additive packages are better than others. Some blow up dolls are better than others too.
There are oils that are superior to those above. Years ago they were called Synthetic. It's all there in the Valvoline dialogue. Right between the lines Myth and Reality.
We were talking about Valvoline's admission that modern conventional and all Group III synthetics are essentially equivalent. Some additive packages are better than others. Some blow up dolls are better than others too.
There are oils that are superior to those above. Years ago they were called Synthetic. It's all there in the Valvoline dialogue. Right between the lines Myth and Reality.
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Some blow up dolls are better than others too.
I guess we will have to take your word on this....
Take care, bill
PS: Meant as a joke folks!
Some blow up dolls are better than others too.
I guess we will have to take your word on this....
Take care, bill
PS: Meant as a joke folks!
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Some blow up dolls are better than others too.
I guess we will have to take your word on this....
Lol. I sent a few of them off to Blackstone.
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Some blow up dolls are better than others too.
I guess we will have to take your word on this....
Lol. I sent a few of them off to Blackstone.
I wonder if this bad publicity is why M1 is offering rebates?
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