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#3174971 - 11/01/13 11:41 AM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: ZeeOSix]
stenerson Offline


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 677
Loc: NH
I was gonna post question about filter for my new used 2005 outback. (it has new motor) Did a search and got this interesting thread. Good to know about this psi spec. I get the oem filters for about 6 bucks with washer, I guess I'll stick with that.
_________________________
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 Hemi 247k miles
2005 suburu outback 166k
2007 Hyundai Sonata 139K

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#3259273 - 01/25/14 06:31 AM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: LoneRanger]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 412
Loc: London, UK
I am afraid, that a lot of previous media (using by Purolator, Champ, Fram, Mobil, Amsoil, RP) ... can be destroyed under high pressure like 23-28 psi...

And this is the main reason of existing only few filters with high settings of bypass valve...

p.s.
For example, why Pure One PL14615 (announced 3 years ago!) is not in the market since then?


Edited by Izb (01/25/14 06:35 AM)

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#3259756 - 01/25/14 03:24 PM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: Izb]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 14012
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Izb
I am afraid, that a lot of previous media (using by Purolator, Champ, Fram, Mobil, Amsoil, RP) ... can be destroyed under high pressure like 23-28 psi...

And this is the main reason of existing only few filters with high settings of bypass valve...

p.s.
For example, why Pure One PL14615 (announced 3 years ago!) is not in the market since then?


How do you know the media in the PL14615 is any different than the media in any other PureOne? And how do you know what filter brands would have media that would be destroyed with 23-28 PSID across the media?

A PureOne PL14006 with only 105 sq-in of media area has a low 5 PSID with 12 GPM of hot 5W-30 oil flowing through it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

The Subaru engines don't flow much beyond that, so if Subaru is specifying a 23 PSI bypass valve on their OEM filter, then it's for massive bypass headroom for various reasons (ie, filter loading, expected high engine RPM with cold thick oil, owner's using thicker oils than specified, etc), and/or the filter itself is pretty flow restrictive and has much more than 5 PSID with hot oil at 12 GPM.

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#3261297 - 01/27/14 08:12 AM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: stenerson]
tojo1968 Offline


Registered: 01/03/14
Posts: 260
Loc: orlando fl
Originally Posted By: stenerson
I was gonna post question about filter for my new used 2005 outback. (it has new motor) Did a search and got this interesting thread. Good to know about this psi spec. I get the oem filters for about 6 bucks with washer, I guess I'll stick with that.

I've used OEM on my 06 Forester since new with no problems. BTW, check with your local dealerships and see if you can order parts on their website. I get filter/washer for $4.54+tax from my local dealer because I order and pay for them online.
_________________________
2015 Frontier Desert Runner CC 4.0

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#3718206 - 05/02/15 08:08 PM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: LoneRanger]
Trix Offline


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 30
Loc: OH
Fred Beans Parts has Tokyo Roki for all Subarus with the proper pressure setting (they use Mazda OEMs).

I've been using those and Blue Subaru filters for a while. The Tokyo Roki has more filter area, so I extend my OCIs to 5000k and not the 3750 they recommend.

04+ STi : PKN3R1AA000

2002+ WRX : PKN3R1AA000

2005-2009 Legacy GT : PKN3R1AA000

2010+ Legacy GT : PKN3R16010

2013+ BRZ : PKN3R16010
_________________________
I'm a chemical engineer, lubricant enthusiast.
2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT (Pennzoil Ultra, 5k OCI)
2016 Subaru WRX (Pennzoil Ultra 6k OCI)

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#4311772 - 01/24/17 08:43 PM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: LoneRanger]
Scargo Offline


Registered: 01/23/17
Posts: 4
Loc: S. CT, USA
I wonder about my Subaru race engine oil filter after reading this whole mofo thread. I put 70 track hours on a new motor and when I tore it down it looked great. Oil analysis was fine.
My Dual AVCS engine was dyno'd at 395 AWD HP and based off a new, 2011 short-block. I ran an 11mm oil pump. I was running a remote filter, a K&N HP-3001 which has only a 8-11 PSI relief valve rating. I usually had 85 PSI at 6K. I also ran a large oil cooler. I had a nine quart oil capacity. I ran only Royal Purple XPR 5W-30 or 10-40. Subaru says the filter should have a 23 PSID relief valve.

Now, I have a new 430 AWDHP DAVCS engine with a 12mm pump and a Peterson external pressure relief valve and the same K&N oil filter. The 12mm pump is capable of more pressure (85 vs 43) but is rated at 6% less flow than the 11mm pump @5,000 RPM, but I will be taking it to 7,500. The engine is a few tenths looser on the rods and mains. It just came off the dyno. 85 PSI+ is no problem.
Should I consider looking for a higher bypass pressure filter? There is a fairly large K&N HP-2005, where the bypass is rated at 27-35 PSID.
The thing is that I've had no oiling issues. While I've ran this motor two of my track buddies with STi's have thrown rods through their cases. They ran stock sized filters in the stock (very hot) location. No oil coolers. Both were in the 370 AWD HP range.
I know this is pretty anecdotal but my setup works for me. You would think that I would have more oil bypassing and more and bearing wear.
I am in process of building yet another (AVCS) engine for my DD. It will have a similar setup to the first old motor, but a little less power and not be a track car. I'm wondering what remote filter would be best for these?
_________________________
Try this jalapeno son, it ain't hot!
17 BMW 440iX OMG!
07 STi DD. 375 AWD HP
08 STi ST2 class track car. 400 AWD HP, 7.5:1 P/WR
818R FFR racer

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#4311893 - 01/25/17 12:05 AM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: LoneRanger]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 412
Loc: London, UK
Are you sure about KN?
KN HP-3001 (thread 3/4-16 in.) or HP-4001 (thread M21x1.5)?

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#4311900 - 01/25/17 12:22 AM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: Scargo]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 14012
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Scargo
Now, I have a new 430 AWDHP DAVCS engine with a 12mm pump and a Peterson external pressure relief valve and the same K&N oil filter. The 12mm pump is capable of more pressure (85 vs 43) but is rated at 6% less flow than the 11mm pump @5,000 RPM, but I will be taking it to 7,500. The engine is a few tenths looser on the rods and mains. It just came off the dyno. 85 PSI+ is no problem.

Should I consider looking for a higher bypass pressure filter? There is a fairly large K&N HP-2005, where the bypass is rated at 27-35 PSID.


I thought most Subarus had really high volume output oil pumps with a high pressure relief setting (way higher than 43 PSI) as mentioned many times in this thread. That was the main theory why Subaru oil filters had such a high bypass valve setting - the high oil flow through the filter will cause more delta-p and therefore should have a higher bypass setting.

Engine oil pressure corresponds to the effort required by the pump to put the pump's output volume through the engine's oiling system. Seems like if the new 12 mm pump puts out less flow volume at 5,000 RPM, and your bearings are setup with a looser tolerance, then the observed pressure should be less at 5,000 RPM (compared to the old 11 mm pump) if running the same oil at the same temperatures. I'm assuming you've bumped up the new pump's pressure relief setting to allow more max pressure, which should mean more oil flow to the engine at higher PRM due to higher pump relief.

Originally Posted By: Scargo
The thing is that I've had no oiling issues. While I've ran this motor two of my track buddies with STi's have thrown rods through their cases. They ran stock sized filters in the stock (very hot) location. No oil coolers. Both were in the 370 AWD HP range.


Any ideas what oil filter brand(s) they ran? With no oil coolers, they probably threw a rod because the the oil thinned out way too much and caused bearing metal-to-metal contact and eventually bearing lock-up and rod failure.

Originally Posted By: Scargo
I know this is pretty anecdotal but my setup works for me. You would think that I would have more oil bypassing and more and bearing wear.


It's been mentioned may times that the bypass setting of oil filters has a lot to do with the filter's flow resistance, and the expected max debris loading and max expected oil flow. As mentioned already, many believe the Subaru filter bypass is set high because of the unusually high pump volume, and who knows how restrictive the filter itself may be as part of the equation - could be part of the reason their bypass is set high. Subaru may also set their bypass really high just to ensure the filter hardly ever bypasses in the most extreme use conditions, similar to what's done with "racing filters".

BTW, Fram has a new racing filter with metal end caps and a high bypass valve setting (in the 20s), high flow specs with most likely a better efficiency than the K&N ... might be another filter to consider also.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...eas#Post4263567


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#4316937 - 01/30/17 04:21 PM Re: Filter Bypass psi/Mazda replacment for Subaru [Re: ZeeOSix]
Scargo Offline


Registered: 01/23/17
Posts: 4
Loc: S. CT, USA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Scargo
Now, I have a new 430 AWDHP DAVCS engine with a 12mm pump and a Peterson external pressure relief valve and the same K&N oil filter. The 12mm pump is capable of more pressure (85 vs 43) but is rated at 6% less flow than the 11mm pump @5,000 RPM, but I will be taking it to 7,500. The engine is a few tenths looser on the rods and mains. It just came off the dyno. 85 PSI+ is no problem.

Should I consider looking for a higher bypass pressure filter? There is a fairly large K&N HP-2005, where the bypass is rated at 27-35 PSID.


I thought most Subarus had really high volume output oil pumps with a high pressure relief setting (way higher than 43 PSI) as mentioned many times in this thread. That was the main theory why Subaru oil filters had such a high bypass valve setting - the high oil flow through the filter will cause more delta-p and therefore should have a higher bypass setting. Many will run an additional shim on the 11mm pump if the motor is going to see race duty. This is with stock bearing clearances. I have a huge Setrab oil cooler and nine quart capacity when the Accusump is included. I've never had overheating conditions with water or oil (in past engine).

Engine oil pressure corresponds to the effort required by the pump to put the pump's output volume through the engine's oiling system. Seems like if the new 12 mm pump puts out less flow volume at 5,000 RPM, and your bearings are setup with a looser tolerance, then the observed pressure should be less at 5,000 RPM (compared to the old 11 mm pump) if running the same oil at the same temperatures. I'm assuming you've bumped up the new pump's pressure relief setting to allow more max pressure, which should mean more oil flow to the engine at higher PRM due to higher pump relief.
The 12mm pump seems like it should be capable of more volume but is listed as making more pressure than an 11MM pump. However, I ported the pump and the galleys and will be revving the engine to 7,500 RPM. The Peterson valve seems to be doing a good job of controlling the pressure. I just have a little more clearance on the bearings beyond stock. 525-550 hP is not an outrageous amount of power. It is all well-balanced, too.

Originally Posted By: Scargo
The thing is that I've had no oiling issues. While I've ran this motor two of my track buddies with STi's have thrown rods through their cases. They ran stock sized filters in the stock (very hot) location. No oil coolers. Both were in the 370 AWD HP range.


Any ideas what oil filter brand(s) they ran? With no oil coolers, they probably threw a rod because the the oil thinned out way too much and caused bearing metal-to-metal contact and eventually bearing lock-up and rod failure.

Originally Posted By: Scargo
I know this is pretty anecdotal but my setup works for me. You would think that I would have more oil bypassing and more and bearing wear.


It's been mentioned may times that the bypass setting of oil filters has a lot to do with the filter's flow resistance, and the expected max debris loading and max expected oil flow. As mentioned already, many believe the Subaru filter bypass is set high because of the unusually high pump volume, and who knows how restrictive the filter itself may be as part of the equation - could be part of the reason their bypass is set high. Subaru may also set their bypass really high just to ensure the filter hardly ever bypasses in the most extreme use conditions, similar to what's done with "racing filters". My goal is to run 5-30 oil.

BTW, Fram has a new racing filter with metal end caps and a high bypass valve setting (in the 20s), high flow specs with most likely a better efficiency than the K&N ... might be another filter to consider also.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...eas#Post4263567

_________________________
Try this jalapeno son, it ain't hot!
17 BMW 440iX OMG!
07 STi DD. 375 AWD HP
08 STi ST2 class track car. 400 AWD HP, 7.5:1 P/WR
818R FFR racer

Top
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