Has anyone ever seen figures on how long a Briggs & Stratton engine would last in hours? In other words, if I buy a used generator with 100 hours on it, and it's a "good" one ($1200 new) how many hours of use would I expect to have?
John
John
How Many Hours Will an Engine Last?
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"Good" generators will have a cast iron sleeve in the cylinder and ball bearing main bearings. Most are rated for around 2000 hours of use. That's with good maintenance, of course.
The biggest thing that kills these small engines these days is leaving gas in them, it will turn to varnish and ruin the fuel system, including the carb in the worst cases.
The biggest thing that kills these small engines these days is leaving gas in them, it will turn to varnish and ruin the fuel system, including the carb in the worst cases.
Yes fuel preservative is your friend.
I;ve got over 2200 hours on my B&S 6.5HP Quantum motor from a sears lawnmower which my father and I used commercially for a few years. Weve used a tiny tach (tach/hour meter) for accuracy as well. Smokes on startup but thats it. As for fuel in the tank, I just used stabil. I've neve rhad a problem or had to clean the carb on this motor or my 5HP snowking thats in storage for 7 months out of the year.
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Yeah, someone once gave me a lawn mower "hardly used, just sitting around." Unfortunately they left it "sitting around" for years with gas in it. I never could get it to run, and the lawn mower place kept it for parts since they couldn't get it to run either. That's when I discovered Sta-bil. Thanks for the input.
John
John
Growing up my father had a old Toro lawnmower we would use every weekend. We both grew up and have spent our entire lives in Texas, we have long hot summers.
When the Toro died, the transmission gave up and the wheels were held on by some aftermarket magic, my father crunched the numbers and figured that he had it and used it almost every weekend since he was 13, so about 33 years.
He put it out by the trash ben, and when we went out there later on that day someone had taken it out of the pile of trash.
I imagine that most generators are alot like lawnmowers. Pretty tough, and even tougher when they are not neglected.
BTW, my father got rid of his Lawnboy mower after 12 years and now my father now has another Toro, and it is a VERY nice machine. Well worth the extra money.
When the Toro died, the transmission gave up and the wheels were held on by some aftermarket magic, my father crunched the numbers and figured that he had it and used it almost every weekend since he was 13, so about 33 years.
He put it out by the trash ben, and when we went out there later on that day someone had taken it out of the pile of trash.
I imagine that most generators are alot like lawnmowers. Pretty tough, and even tougher when they are not neglected.
BTW, my father got rid of his Lawnboy mower after 12 years and now my father now has another Toro, and it is a VERY nice machine. Well worth the extra money.
Today, there is a really easy to determine new small engine lifespan. The EPA has a code on the compliance sticker.
Small engines like push mowers.
A=500hr=extended
B=250hr=intermediate
C=125hr=moderate
The same goes for larger engines (think 15-20HP)
A=1000hr=extended
B=500hr=intermediate
C=250hr=moderate
There are some variations to this, depending on displacement and output.
It is a really good way to determine if your choice of product has a "long life" commercial engine or just a "homeowner" engine. Quite often, there are many versions of engines that look exactly the same.
The example above, with a B+S mower is not likely to be the case with a bottom of the line engine. The cylinder is poorly plated aluminum and has a very modest life. Contrast that to a Nikasil or cast iron cylinder and the life goes up.
Also, piston ring type changes, depending on the quality requested by the manufacturer. This is why some engines last and some don't.
Chris
Small engines like push mowers.
A=500hr=extended
B=250hr=intermediate
C=125hr=moderate
The same goes for larger engines (think 15-20HP)
A=1000hr=extended
B=500hr=intermediate
C=250hr=moderate
There are some variations to this, depending on displacement and output.
It is a really good way to determine if your choice of product has a "long life" commercial engine or just a "homeowner" engine. Quite often, there are many versions of engines that look exactly the same.
The example above, with a B+S mower is not likely to be the case with a bottom of the line engine. The cylinder is poorly plated aluminum and has a very modest life. Contrast that to a Nikasil or cast iron cylinder and the life goes up.
Also, piston ring type changes, depending on the quality requested by the manufacturer. This is why some engines last and some don't.
Chris
read somewhere the 2 cycle engines normally found on your typical Homelite leaf blower are engineered for 150 hours.--
S
S
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Today, there is a really easy to determine new small engine lifespan. The EPA has a code on the compliance sticker.
Small engines like push mowers.
A=500hr=extended
B=250hr=intermediate
C=125hr=moderate
The same goes for larger engines (think 15-20HP)
A=1000hr=extended
B=500hr=intermediate
C=250hr=moderate
There are some variations to this, depending on displacement and output.
It is a really good way to determine if your choice of product has a "long life" commercial engine or just a "homeowner" engine. Quite often, there are many versions of engines that look exactly the same.
The example above, with a B+S mower is not likely to be the case with a bottom of the line engine. The cylinder is poorly plated aluminum and has a very modest life. Contrast that to a Nikasil or cast iron cylinder and the life goes up.
Also, piston ring type changes, depending on the quality requested by the manufacturer. This is why some engines last and some don't.
Chris
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Today, there is a really easy to determine new small engine lifespan. The EPA has a code on the compliance sticker.
Small engines like push mowers.
A=500hr=extended
B=250hr=intermediate
C=125hr=moderate
The same goes for larger engines (think 15-20HP)
A=1000hr=extended
B=500hr=intermediate
C=250hr=moderate
There are some variations to this, depending on displacement and output.
It is a really good way to determine if your choice of product has a "long life" commercial engine or just a "homeowner" engine. Quite often, there are many versions of engines that look exactly the same.
The example above, with a B+S mower is not likely to be the case with a bottom of the line engine. The cylinder is poorly plated aluminum and has a very modest life. Contrast that to a Nikasil or cast iron cylinder and the life goes up.
Also, piston ring type changes, depending on the quality requested by the manufacturer. This is why some engines last and some don't.
Chris
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Im not sure about the hours, but consider this... my dad had an old craftsman mower (with a Briggs engine) for nearly 20 years. my dad was never one to highly maintain his machines, in fact they got quite neglected. the thing still ran great when we got rid of it, and the only reason we did so was because we wanted one with powered wheels since we have a big yard.
we've also had a yard machines tractor (also a Briggs engine) since 2000. going into its tenth mowing season, its has only had the oil changed a few times, and still has the same air filter and spark plug. the other day, i checked the valve clearance for the first time on this mower EVER. it was still perfectly in factory spec, and i do mean perfect... same gap on both the intake and exhaust valve. and there was no sludge or varnish at all whatsoever underneath the valve cover.
what im getting at is, small engines are quite durable, even without proper maintenance. if you take care of them, they should have a good long life.
we've also had a yard machines tractor (also a Briggs engine) since 2000. going into its tenth mowing season, its has only had the oil changed a few times, and still has the same air filter and spark plug. the other day, i checked the valve clearance for the first time on this mower EVER. it was still perfectly in factory spec, and i do mean perfect... same gap on both the intake and exhaust valve. and there was no sludge or varnish at all whatsoever underneath the valve cover.
what im getting at is, small engines are quite durable, even without proper maintenance. if you take care of them, they should have a good long life.
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homepower magazine did an article a few years back. they belt-drive small (6.5-10hp) ope engines to vehicle alternators for solar power systems backup, battery conditioning, etc. This is steady-state running at 2500 rpm IIRC for extended periods.
I think I remember reading that they typically saw Briggs last ~500 hrs, Tec 700 hrs, and "currently" had over 2000 on a honda GC series.
Apples and Oranges maybe but still interesting read.
M
I think I remember reading that they typically saw Briggs last ~500 hrs, Tec 700 hrs, and "currently" had over 2000 on a honda GC series.
Apples and Oranges maybe but still interesting read.
M
My motto is keep it simple, keep it stupid. These engines can completely be taken apart with basic tools. The simplicity of the design is what makes them so reliable. I honestly think that these engines would run forever with a quality synthetic and constant usage instead of seasonal stuff.
Consumer grades depends on use and maintanence 100-200 hrs., often cheaper to replace than over haul. Comercial grades again varies 1000-2000 hrs., here is usually cheaper to overhaul than buy a new one. Oil filtration is some help mostly to back up the so-so air filters usually found on these engines, they will last longer if used dust free/or less, better air filtration would be a huge boost here.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Yes, that might be true. But the facts remain, cheap engines fail to run cleanly for very long, they simply wear out. The EPA testing is quite informative. As I mentioned, it's an easy way to determine eng quality and expected lifespan. The testing has already been done for you.
Also, the EPA compliance hours allow for degredation of emissions over the lifetime of the engine. By the time the test is over, the engine (maintained by the manufacturers schedule, btw), the engines are considered worn out. They are likely smoking at startup and running rough at idle.
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Yes, that might be true. But the facts remain, cheap engines fail to run cleanly for very long, they simply wear out. The EPA testing is quite informative. As I mentioned, it's an easy way to determine eng quality and expected lifespan. The testing has already been done for you.
Also, the EPA compliance hours allow for degredation of emissions over the lifetime of the engine. By the time the test is over, the engine (maintained by the manufacturers schedule, btw), the engines are considered worn out. They are likely smoking at startup and running rough at idle.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Yes, that might be true. But the facts remain, cheap engines fail to run cleanly for very long, they simply wear out. The EPA testing is quite informative. As I mentioned, it's an easy way to determine eng quality and expected lifespan. The testing has already been done for you.
Also, the EPA compliance hours allow for degredation of emissions over the lifetime of the engine. By the time the test is over, the engine (maintained by the manufacturers schedule, btw), the engines are considered worn out. They are likely smoking at startup and running rough at idle.
BINGO! An engine with a low rating for EPA hours is an engine that is not made to last a long time. It is cheap and designed for the homeowner that uses once a week in the growing season or the wood cutting season or the snow season.(I don't do snow but I am sure it is more than once a week for that application)
Buy commercial and be happy! I have friends with 1000's of hours on blowers and trimmers and edgers that have done little more than run good fuel/oil mix and changed the plug/air filter/fuel filter and greased the attachments regularly. A little maintenance to a great piece of equipment will last a homeowners life and a commercial business for years and years.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Yes, that might be true. But the facts remain, cheap engines fail to run cleanly for very long, they simply wear out. The EPA testing is quite informative. As I mentioned, it's an easy way to determine eng quality and expected lifespan. The testing has already been done for you.
Also, the EPA compliance hours allow for degredation of emissions over the lifetime of the engine. By the time the test is over, the engine (maintained by the manufacturers schedule, btw), the engines are considered worn out. They are likely smoking at startup and running rough at idle.
BINGO! An engine with a low rating for EPA hours is an engine that is not made to last a long time. It is cheap and designed for the homeowner that uses once a week in the growing season or the wood cutting season or the snow season.(I don't do snow but I am sure it is more than once a week for that application)
Buy commercial and be happy! I have friends with 1000's of hours on blowers and trimmers and edgers that have done little more than run good fuel/oil mix and changed the plug/air filter/fuel filter and greased the attachments regularly. A little maintenance to a great piece of equipment will last a homeowners life and a commercial business for years and years.
Kestas
Staff member
I have inside word that manufacturers are pushing for 1200 hours from their 10 HP engines and that thick oil (such as 20W-50) is the key to longevity.
I have a 12+ year old Lawnboy with a B&S 6hp engine (commercial grade). It gets used ~25 hours a year. I change the oil every spring with Castrol HD 30W.
It burns oil if I try any multi-grade, but seems to like the Castrol. Air filter is also cleaned/re-oiled along with the oil change, and the spark plug is changed every other year.
It burns oil if I try any multi-grade, but seems to like the Castrol. Air filter is also cleaned/re-oiled along with the oil change, and the spark plug is changed every other year.
I have a mower with the Honda 160 GCV consumer grade engine that I purchased back in 2000. It now has, according to the hour meter I have on it, 480 hours. I use it year 'round, cleaning up leaves and other yard debris in the winter months.It gets an oil change once a year, about every 60 hours. It has never been down more than a sixteenth of an inch on the dipstick, and. since the first oil change at 5 hours, it has mostly used Mobil 1 5W30. One year, I had a quart of M1 0W30, so I tried that. Still no oil usage. Last year, I changed to Mobil 1 High Mileage oil and presently have about 50 hours on it, with no usage, and it still looks very good. I'll probably change it at about the usual 60 hour mark.
This particular Honda engine is a fairly cheap engine; it can be purchase from any of several small engine sellers around the country at prices ranging from $160 to $190. This is a fairly common engine and is used by several brands. I wonder just how long they last.
By the way, I just had to replace the hour meter on it as the battery ran down and was not replaceable.
That B&S engine, above, commercial grade, only has about 300 hours on it now. B&S says that oil usage might be expected using multigrade dino oil. Their number one recommendation for all temperatures is synthetic 5W30, which they sell under their own brand name. Straight 30W is OK above 40 degrees.
This particular Honda engine is a fairly cheap engine; it can be purchase from any of several small engine sellers around the country at prices ranging from $160 to $190. This is a fairly common engine and is used by several brands. I wonder just how long they last.
By the way, I just had to replace the hour meter on it as the battery ran down and was not replaceable.
That B&S engine, above, commercial grade, only has about 300 hours on it now. B&S says that oil usage might be expected using multigrade dino oil. Their number one recommendation for all temperatures is synthetic 5W30, which they sell under their own brand name. Straight 30W is OK above 40 degrees.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Yes, that might be true. But the facts remain, cheap engines fail to run cleanly for very long, they simply wear out. The EPA testing is quite informative. As I mentioned, it's an easy way to determine eng quality and expected lifespan. The testing has already been done for you.
Also, the EPA compliance hours allow for degredation of emissions over the lifetime of the engine. By the time the test is over, the engine (maintained by the manufacturers schedule, btw), the engines are considered worn out. They are likely smoking at startup and running rough at idle.
While ancedotal stories will never be admissable as proof, All of my consumer grade engines have exponentially exceeded the EPA emission figures. I agree it may indicate a quality of build, and I have no clue as to unseen emissions. But I disagree that they wear apart. I would argue they fail emmisions for maintenance the average homeowner is not willing to do. I have antiques that start immidiately, run flawlessly and operate without smoking. I have machines fall apart around their engines, both two and four cycle.
What causes them to come out of emission compliance? I love a rebuild, but usually a carb cleaning, oil change and valve adjustment is all that is ever needed to keep simple air cooled engines operational. The tolerances are wide, and wear is rarely an issue. I rarely find valve or seat issues other than adjustment. The mufflers are cans, not cats. A failing breather might allow oil in to be burnt in combustion, but are an easy 5 minute switch Is it carbon build up on the head, that is never removed? I will admit that is a more involved maintenance procedure.
I understand that the average consumer will not adjust valves, carbs, change a breather or scrape a head, but that does not mean the engine wore out in 250 hours or 5 years.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
The above figures are not how long an engine will last. They are just how long they are expected to remain in emissions compliance. A well maintained (i.e., frequent oil changes) engine should last several times the above figures.
Yes, that might be true. But the facts remain, cheap engines fail to run cleanly for very long, they simply wear out. The EPA testing is quite informative. As I mentioned, it's an easy way to determine eng quality and expected lifespan. The testing has already been done for you.
Also, the EPA compliance hours allow for degredation of emissions over the lifetime of the engine. By the time the test is over, the engine (maintained by the manufacturers schedule, btw), the engines are considered worn out. They are likely smoking at startup and running rough at idle.
While ancedotal stories will never be admissable as proof, All of my consumer grade engines have exponentially exceeded the EPA emission figures. I agree it may indicate a quality of build, and I have no clue as to unseen emissions. But I disagree that they wear apart. I would argue they fail emmisions for maintenance the average homeowner is not willing to do. I have antiques that start immidiately, run flawlessly and operate without smoking. I have machines fall apart around their engines, both two and four cycle.
What causes them to come out of emission compliance? I love a rebuild, but usually a carb cleaning, oil change and valve adjustment is all that is ever needed to keep simple air cooled engines operational. The tolerances are wide, and wear is rarely an issue. I rarely find valve or seat issues other than adjustment. The mufflers are cans, not cats. A failing breather might allow oil in to be burnt in combustion, but are an easy 5 minute switch Is it carbon build up on the head, that is never removed? I will admit that is a more involved maintenance procedure.
I understand that the average consumer will not adjust valves, carbs, change a breather or scrape a head, but that does not mean the engine wore out in 250 hours or 5 years.
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