Delta Inherits DC9s

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Recall that Delta inherited a bunch of Airbus equipment from PanAm. They kept them for a while but eventually got rid of them and have basically been a Boeing customer, except for the MD88/90s.

I fly Delta a lot, gold medallion, etc. I'm seeing a LOT of the CRJs in use now. They are using them in routes that they formerly flew 737s and MD88s. Anbd on routes that they formerly flew 757s, those have gone to the 737 now. seems like the only 767 runs are the transatlantic hops now.

Delta got rid of most of their trans-Pacific routes they picked up from PanAm. What do you thing will happen to the NWA trans-pac routes? Keep or ditch? DL really needs a west coast hub if they are going to stay in the trans-pac market, and it should NOT be Portland. SFO or LAX would be best IMO.
 
DL just announced LAX-Sydney service on 777-200LR's. When Delta bought Western in the 1980's, they got SLC and LAX hubs. The LAX operation has declined in recent years. With separate Customs and Immigration at Terminal 5, they have a slight advantage over the Asian carriers operating out of Bradley. NWA never had any significant presence on the West Coast, but did have a few gates in Terminal 2. Seattle must have been the main trans-Pac gateway.
 
Rats. LAX-SYD does me no good, I live near SFO, plenty of nonstops SFO-SYD on United and Qantas. I wish somebody would initiate the "hi-tech express" with a nonstop between SFO and Bangalore. Air India was talking about it but seems to have let it drop. It's like 8700 miles, polar route, some 747s and A340 have the range.
 
I was surprised to see them keep the DC-9 also. I learned last week that they're going to be using the DC-9 for many of our feeder carriers such as ASA and ComAir.

Also, the current plan is to keep the Airbus aircraft. It turns out that even though Delta is joined with Northwest after this merger they still have to operate as two separate companies until more details are ironed out. Northwest had contracts with outside companies that have to be fulfilled and Delta simply doesn't have the manpower to just jump in feet first and take over 100% of the operation.

Tremo, in all seriousness it would be worthwhile to write to Delta and let them know of your desire for a certain transpacific route. Delta has taken the international scene by storm and that is where all of the money is being made at the moment. I was told recently that if it weren't for our European routes we'd be hurting in a serious way financially. I believe Delta knows that the Portland gateway isn't going to work indefinately so it may help to drop them a line and put a good idea in their ear.

Also, as a tidbit of info, Delta currently has numerous B767's sitting in wait to go through the paint hangar here in Atlanta. I have no idea what airline they came from because they've all been stripped and primered at this stage. The only items that don't get initially stripped or sanded are the balanced flight controls so that is the only clue as to where the planes originated. It sounds crazy but the paint color looks like it once belonged to AirTran and they have never ever owned B767's.

Regardless, there are going to be more widebodies added to the fleet soon. Our flights coming from Germany have been overloaded for the past three weeks. My wife sat stranded in Germany for several days trying to catch a stand-by seat out of all three major cities (MUC, STR, FRA). She ended up riding the train down to Paris and flying to New York. Maybe Delta can fill those 747's now. I certainly hope so for my jobs sake.
 
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Originally Posted By: zulu
I stand corrected (and dumbfounded)...

Here is one of the first DC-9s in new DAL widget colors

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-51/1451731/M/

What the [censored] are they thinking...


Told ya!
cheers3.gif


Take care, bill
 
Originally Posted By: zulu

What the [censored] are they thinking...


IMO .... 99% of customers do not know the difference between a newer CRJ & Embraer series jet vs that of a 60s era DC9.

Unbelievable, Delta actually painted and intends to keep them for the indefinate future. I guess the follow-up told-you-so poster is also right. This means the once all Boeing Delta will soon have repainted Airbuses (under NW operating certificates in the transition time).

Go figure.
 
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Nobody cares what it is provided it isn't a turboprop...

But my comment was directed at the cost-efficiency of continuing to fly them. They are TERRIBLY in-efficient. Their cost per seat mile is almost 40% higher than a comparable NG 737. On top of that, all of their avionics are still stuck in the '70s point-to-point VOR navigation. No GPS or RNAV. We vector them all day long across America because they can't go direct anywhere on thier own. No glass gauges anywhere... when it breaks, it has to be rebuilt because nobody makes replacement units. There are SO many issues with such an aging and antiquated aircraft, and Delta had the perfect opportunity to ditch it. And they didn't... it doesn't make any sense. Northwest was already in the process of subsidizing the DC-9 routes to Pinnacle, NewCo, and Mesa, who all use the CRJs/ERJs.

I guess this I why I don't own an airline...
 
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Originally Posted By: zulu
But my comment was directed at the cost-efficiency of continuing to fly them.


My point was mostly rhetorical. In actuality Delta may have grown but it is still dangerously close to demise (like many legacy carriers). Second, Boeing is overloaded with orders. Third as you know the credit crunch is killing lending. Based on this alone how can Delta go on a 737-800, CRJ, 777 spending spree.

Speculatively, perhaps DL is betting on low fuel prices to keep the DC9s and MD88s solvent until they can buy something better? I agree this aircraft is a guzzler and maintenence nightmare .... I can only imagine what happens in a "C" & "D" depot level maintence check. This may not make business sense but since when were US automakers and Airlines logical? Have you noticed how fuel prices are down to the lowest levels since 2003 but junk fuel and baggage fees have not been dropped?
 
Sorry was too late to edit, here is another sneaky vector on the topic.

CVG & MEM may be axed as hubs reducing "excess" capacity due to the proximity of CVG/MEM/DTW/MSP. If this becomes so then perhaps the RJ & short haul fleet can be a rearranged to allow for the phase-out the plane? Closing the hubs will take time and for the aircraft makers to deliver will mean more time and definite production delays. Stop Gap would be the only reasonable explanation.
 
Seems to me like MEM is too close to ATL to be retained as a hub. I can understand closing CVG since it is close to both MSP and DTW.

Why did DL close the DFW hub? Too much heat from AA? They basically gave all the traffic from the west coast into Texas to AA.

Another thing is the bloody cramped RJs. They are flying them now on longer and longer flights. MHT to ATL, sheesh that's nearly 3 hours. I half way expect to see RJ service introduced between SJC and ATL. the only RJs that don't feel overly cramped is the E170/190 series. the CRJs suck,, overhead bins are tiny.
 
I don't like CRJ's at all. From a pilot and pax perspective the E170/90 are much better over all. I can't justify 3 hours in a CRJ. That's nuts.
 
Originally Posted By: Tremo

Why did DL close the DFW hub? Too much heat from AA? They basically gave all the traffic from the west coast into Texas to AA.


I worked for Delta at the DFW gates when they were still a hub. The downsizing of operations at terminal E meant the loss of many career and wonderful people. It also meant shutting down ASAs mini hub at the satellite terminal. Even though I am a dedicated Delta FF and my father is even a million miler I truly resent DL for doing this to DFW. MCO, LAX, LAS, HNL etc were all packed and profitable routes. DL handed the competition to AA and WN. I am confident DL will screw CVG soon.

Good luck getting future F upgrade seats, you are now competing with NW elite passengers for them. SM & GM medallion levels are becoming meaningless with all the PM and MMs out there.
 
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Originally Posted By: outrun
Sorry was too late to edit, here is another sneaky vector on the topic.

CVG & MEM may be axed as hubs reducing "excess" capacity due to the proximity of CVG/MEM/DTW/MSP. If this becomes so then perhaps the RJ & short haul fleet can be a rearranged to allow for the phase-out the plane? Closing the hubs will take time and for the aircraft makers to deliver will mean more time and definite production delays. Stop Gap would be the only reasonable explanation.


We were just discussing this at work today. From the official inside channel, there is no news. My best personal guess is that MEM all but dissappears off the map. MSP becomes another STL debacle, and DTW/CVG sustain minor cutbacks. Too many of NWAs international flights originate out of DTW. CVG is a good central location and is very under-utilized by anybody but Delta/Comair.
 
My best friends dad was a check airman on the 75/76 based in DFW when DL pulled out. They had to relocate to ATL, and he was FOREVER bitter. Still is to this day, and he's been retired for almost 6 years now.
 
Honestly as someone who fly's from the west coast to Dallas 10+ times in a year I have all but giving up on delta and AA for that matter.

Southwest makes it so much more convenient and MUCH more affordable to travel between Oakland and Dallas. Flying into love field is so much easier than DFW. Their scheduling is second to none as far as flexibility. Most of the time I even forget that im flying in a 737. You can keep the wide body and the Hassle of flying the major carriers as far as im concerned.
 
Originally Posted By: sparkplug
I don't like CRJ's at all. From a pilot and pax perspective the E170/90 are much better over all. I can't justify 3 hours in a CRJ. That's nuts.


I flew from ORD to CMH on a UA E170 and was amazed at how much more comfortable it was and how much bigger the overheads were compared to the [censored] CRJs.

I think 3 to 4+ hour RJ flights are coming. The newer and bigger 100 pax RJs (CRJ1000, E195) now seem to have coast to coast range, or very close to it. Wouldn't be too terrible on an E195, but would be miserable on a CRJ. I would not be surprised to see DL start flying RJs between ATL and smaller west coast airports such as RNO, OAK, SMF and SJC. *** has hppened? These flights used to fill 757s.
 
Originally Posted By: outrun
Originally Posted By: Tremo

Why did DL close the DFW hub? Too much heat from AA? They basically gave all the traffic from the west coast into Texas to AA.


I worked for Delta at the DFW gates when they were still a hub. The downsizing of operations at terminal E meant the loss of many career and wonderful people. It also meant shutting down ASAs mini hub at the satellite terminal. Even though I am a dedicated Delta FF and my father is even a million miler I truly resent DL for doing this to DFW. MCO, LAX, LAS, HNL etc were all packed and profitable routes. DL handed the competition to AA and WN. I am confident DL will screw CVG soon.

Good luck getting future F upgrade seats, you are now competing with NW elite passengers for them. SM & GM medallion levels are becoming meaningless with all the PM and MMs out there.


I almost hit PM this year, 1600 miles short. Also, I will probably be a MM within about 2 years at my current rate of travel, I have well over 800k now. With all the bonus miles you pick up from being GM, actual flight miles required will probably be only about 100k to go. LOL, I was chatting with a guy on one of my last flights who was already PM, and he was complaining about not being able to upgrade. I think fare basis is becoming a key factor, the deeply discounted coach fares don't cut it, you need a M fare ticket or better.

I agree they screwed the pooch at DFW, I used to fly through there all the time. I was reading an article recently and they implied DL is focusing most on international routes now and cutting back domestics to the bone. That seems to be where the $$ is.
 
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