Dextron VI suitable for Mercon transmission?
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you should use Mercon V.
Kestas
Staff member
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
Tell that to Amsoil...
AMSOIL ATF is recommended for transmission, hydraulic and other applications requiring any of the following specifications:
* GM DEXRON® II, III & VI
* Ford MERCON®, MERCON® V & SP
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)--->6.8
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
Tell that to Amsoil...
AMSOIL ATF is recommended for transmission, hydraulic and other applications requiring any of the following specifications:
* GM DEXRON® II, III & VI
* Ford MERCON®, MERCON® V & SP
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)--->6.8
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
This is often quoted in many places as a dis-qualifier, but to say that .4 cSt will disqualify a fluid when the cold specs are at least 10000 cSt is just nuts.
This is also the blend point and does not take into consideration shear in use which can easily go below 6 cSt and those blend points.
DexronIII used to be 7.5 cSt and Dex VI is now 6.4.
If someone wants to talk chemistry or friction characteristics I'll listen, but the viscosity argument is moot.
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
This is often quoted in many places as a dis-qualifier, but to say that .4 cSt will disqualify a fluid when the cold specs are at least 10000 cSt is just nuts.
This is also the blend point and does not take into consideration shear in use which can easily go below 6 cSt and those blend points.
DexronIII used to be 7.5 cSt and Dex VI is now 6.4.
If someone wants to talk chemistry or friction characteristics I'll listen, but the viscosity argument is moot.
JayS --- Ford said Mercon V was not to be used for Mercon applications.
Now they say it is just fine, and is recommended. It always was good, in other words.
Since you have a ZX2, http://teamzx2.com/
TeamZX2.com - Powered by vBulletin is a great site for our cars.
A bit younger crowd than here, but a LOT of good info.
Now they say it is just fine, and is recommended. It always was good, in other words.
Since you have a ZX2, http://teamzx2.com/
TeamZX2.com - Powered by vBulletin is a great site for our cars.
A bit younger crowd than here, but a LOT of good info.
The viscosity difference isn't .4cSt. That is the difference between the maximum of Dex-VI and the minumum of Mercon-V. Actual viscosities of the fluids are likely a larger spread.
Has Mercon-V always been the same formulation? We don't know. We know that GM has changed their Dexron-III formulation from (A) to the latest, (H). Ford doesn't label the Mercon-V changes. My guess is that the Mercon-V that Ford presently spec'd for transmissions that were originally spec'd for Mercon is not the same Mercon-V than compared to what it is now.
Amsoil cuts a lot of corners with their lubricant recommendations. I know of no one else that includes Mercon-SP with other specs, nor that includes Dexron-VI with other fluid specs. Amsoil and all the others buy their ATF additive packages from the same group of chemical companies, so is it just a matter of Amsoil being willing to stick their neck out farther with the recommendations? The various fluids on that list certainly cannot meet the GM and Ford specs for licensing to all those fluids.
Has Mercon-V always been the same formulation? We don't know. We know that GM has changed their Dexron-III formulation from (A) to the latest, (H). Ford doesn't label the Mercon-V changes. My guess is that the Mercon-V that Ford presently spec'd for transmissions that were originally spec'd for Mercon is not the same Mercon-V than compared to what it is now.
Amsoil cuts a lot of corners with their lubricant recommendations. I know of no one else that includes Mercon-SP with other specs, nor that includes Dexron-VI with other fluid specs. Amsoil and all the others buy their ATF additive packages from the same group of chemical companies, so is it just a matter of Amsoil being willing to stick their neck out farther with the recommendations? The various fluids on that list certainly cannot meet the GM and Ford specs for licensing to all those fluids.
Quote:
The viscosity difference isn't .4cSt. That is the difference between the maximum of Dex-VI and the minumum of Mercon-V. Actual viscosities of the fluids are likely a larger spread.
What do you mean by "actual viscosities"?
The viscosity difference isn't .4cSt. That is the difference between the maximum of Dex-VI and the minumum of Mercon-V. Actual viscosities of the fluids are likely a larger spread.
What do you mean by "actual viscosities"?
Originally Posted By: onion
Using DexVI in a MerconV transmission would be kinda like putting Amsoil in pretty much anything. It'll probably work ok... might even work great. But it isn't what the transmission was designed for, so you're taking your chances.
Not a fair comment. Amsoil lists all the specs its suitable for. Does Dex VI say its suitable for Mercon V?
Using DexVI in a MerconV transmission would be kinda like putting Amsoil in pretty much anything. It'll probably work ok... might even work great. But it isn't what the transmission was designed for, so you're taking your chances.
Not a fair comment. Amsoil lists all the specs its suitable for. Does Dex VI say its suitable for Mercon V?
That is like putting a cat's head on a dog's body IMO
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
This is often quoted in many places as a dis-qualifier, but to say that .4 cSt will disqualify a fluid when the cold specs are at least 10000 cSt is just nuts.
This is also the blend point and does not take into consideration shear in use which can easily go below 6 cSt and those blend points.
DexronIII used to be 7.5 cSt and Dex VI is now 6.4.
If someone wants to talk chemistry or friction characteristics I'll listen, but the viscosity argument is moot.
OH no not this again.......
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The viscosity specification for each fluid:
6.4 cSt max for Dexron-VI
6.8 cSt min for Mercon V
There is no overlap in viscosity between the two fluids, meaning one fluid cannot be used in place of another, nor can there be a universal fluid that covers both.
This is often quoted in many places as a dis-qualifier, but to say that .4 cSt will disqualify a fluid when the cold specs are at least 10000 cSt is just nuts.
This is also the blend point and does not take into consideration shear in use which can easily go below 6 cSt and those blend points.
DexronIII used to be 7.5 cSt and Dex VI is now 6.4.
If someone wants to talk chemistry or friction characteristics I'll listen, but the viscosity argument is moot.
OH no not this again.......
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: onion
Using DexVI in a MerconV transmission would be kinda like putting Amsoil in pretty much anything. It'll probably work ok... might even work great. But it isn't what the transmission was designed for, so you're taking your chances.
Not a fair comment. Amsoil lists all the specs its suitable for. Does Dex VI say its suitable for Mercon V?
Both are unlicensed fluids for the application. May work great... may work ok... may be sloppy at best. You're taking your chances. No different from any number of "universal" atf's sitting on shelves these days.
I know from experience that several models of GM transmissions will work just fine with cheap-a$$ hydraulic oil... I've done thorogh testing. Just for the sake of conversation, I'm gonna reccommend cheap-a$$ hydraulic oil for all Dex/Merc applications. It's definitely suitable. I say so. So why don't you give it a try? It'll work great! It's "approved".
Originally Posted By: onion
Using DexVI in a MerconV transmission would be kinda like putting Amsoil in pretty much anything. It'll probably work ok... might even work great. But it isn't what the transmission was designed for, so you're taking your chances.
Not a fair comment. Amsoil lists all the specs its suitable for. Does Dex VI say its suitable for Mercon V?
Both are unlicensed fluids for the application. May work great... may work ok... may be sloppy at best. You're taking your chances. No different from any number of "universal" atf's sitting on shelves these days.
I know from experience that several models of GM transmissions will work just fine with cheap-a$$ hydraulic oil... I've done thorogh testing. Just for the sake of conversation, I'm gonna reccommend cheap-a$$ hydraulic oil for all Dex/Merc applications. It's definitely suitable. I say so. So why don't you give it a try? It'll work great! It's "approved".
One big difference is that if you use Amsoil fluid that is recommended (for your engine/tranny) and it causes a problem, Amsoil will warranty its fluid and repair or replace the damaged item. Not sure any other oil maker will do that and its certainly not the case if you used Dexron VI in a Mercon V spec'ed vehicle.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
The viscosity difference isn't .4cSt. That is the difference between the maximum of Dex-VI and the minumum of Mercon-V. Actual viscosities of the fluids are likely a larger spread.
What do you mean by "actual viscosities"?
There's a minimum and maximum viscosity for an lubricant specification. I think it allows for some variations from batch to batch. As a comparison, think of the specification for a xw-30. It can be as low as 9.3 to as high as 12.5.
Originally Posted By: Donald
One big difference is that if you use Amsoil fluid that is recommended (for your engine/tranny) and it causes a problem, Amsoil will warranty its fluid and repair or replace the damaged item. Not sure any other oil maker will do that and its certainly not the case if you used Dexron VI in a Mercon V spec'ed vehicle.
All lubricant manufacturers warranty their fluids when used in the recommended applications. On the other hand, proving a lubricant related failure is quick difficult. Chances are, whenever you have a warranty claim involving an unapproved fluid, everyone's going to be pointing fingers and you, as the consumer, is just going to be stuck.
Quote:
The viscosity difference isn't .4cSt. That is the difference between the maximum of Dex-VI and the minumum of Mercon-V. Actual viscosities of the fluids are likely a larger spread.
What do you mean by "actual viscosities"?
There's a minimum and maximum viscosity for an lubricant specification. I think it allows for some variations from batch to batch. As a comparison, think of the specification for a xw-30. It can be as low as 9.3 to as high as 12.5.
Originally Posted By: Donald
One big difference is that if you use Amsoil fluid that is recommended (for your engine/tranny) and it causes a problem, Amsoil will warranty its fluid and repair or replace the damaged item. Not sure any other oil maker will do that and its certainly not the case if you used Dexron VI in a Mercon V spec'ed vehicle.
All lubricant manufacturers warranty their fluids when used in the recommended applications. On the other hand, proving a lubricant related failure is quick difficult. Chances are, whenever you have a warranty claim involving an unapproved fluid, everyone's going to be pointing fingers and you, as the consumer, is just going to be stuck.
Quote:
There's a minimum and maximum viscosity for an lubricant specification. I think it allows for some variations from batch to batch. As a comparison, think of the specification for a xw-30. It can be as low as 9.3 to as high as 12.5.
I am aware of this. I want to know what he meant by it as I am not following his train of thought.
There's a minimum and maximum viscosity for an lubricant specification. I think it allows for some variations from batch to batch. As a comparison, think of the specification for a xw-30. It can be as low as 9.3 to as high as 12.5.
I am aware of this. I want to know what he meant by it as I am not following his train of thought.
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