I'm close to buying a BMW. What do think I will be putting in my engine?
Auto RX alternatives?
- Thread starter G_lo
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Originally Posted By: Quest
yikes! another stoddard solvent postings again...
Q.
hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm - love the smell of solvents in the morning!
I even add it to my cereal in the morning just to keep my insides cleaned out
Seriously though - it would be nice to be able to have a conversation about other oil additives for a change without the Auto-RX "Nazi's" coming out and attacking everyone for not using their preferred product and taking over the thread.
Life does not revolve around Auto-RX and there actually ARE some other oil additive products out there that also work pretty well for what they are. Some that come to mind are LC20, BG MOA, VSOT, MMO, SLOB, etc.
I would appreciate it if you would let us have our discussion too. Thanks!
yikes! another stoddard solvent postings again...
Q.
hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm - love the smell of solvents in the morning!
I even add it to my cereal in the morning just to keep my insides cleaned out
Seriously though - it would be nice to be able to have a conversation about other oil additives for a change without the Auto-RX "Nazi's" coming out and attacking everyone for not using their preferred product and taking over the thread.
Life does not revolve around Auto-RX and there actually ARE some other oil additive products out there that also work pretty well for what they are. Some that come to mind are LC20, BG MOA, VSOT, MMO, SLOB, etc.
I would appreciate it if you would let us have our discussion too. Thanks!
Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Seriously though - it would be nice to be able to have a conversation about other oil additives for a change without the Auto-RX "Nazi's" coming out and attacking everyone for not using their preferred product and taking over the thread.
Life does not revolve around Auto-RX and there actually ARE some other oil additive products out there that also work pretty well for what they are. Some that come to mind are LC20, BG MOA, VSOT, MMO, SLOB, etc.
I would appreciate it if you would let us have our discussion too. Thanks!
The following is from the OP.
Originally Posted By: G_lo
So, many choices...
Are any of these a good choice or should I pony up the $ for Auto RX?
Let me know guys.
Those who reply with comments favoring ARX are therefore right on topic.
The "Nazi" comment is both specious and highly suspect, and such is not at all appreciated by me.
I will add that, with the exception of Slick 50, all of those products have value within their appropriate applications, and the OP sets up an false "either ARX is good and all the others are khrapenzie or" 'thang', which I also find highly suspect.
Seriously though - it would be nice to be able to have a conversation about other oil additives for a change without the Auto-RX "Nazi's" coming out and attacking everyone for not using their preferred product and taking over the thread.
Life does not revolve around Auto-RX and there actually ARE some other oil additive products out there that also work pretty well for what they are. Some that come to mind are LC20, BG MOA, VSOT, MMO, SLOB, etc.
I would appreciate it if you would let us have our discussion too. Thanks!
The following is from the OP.
Originally Posted By: G_lo
So, many choices...
Are any of these a good choice or should I pony up the $ for Auto RX?
Let me know guys.
Those who reply with comments favoring ARX are therefore right on topic.
The "Nazi" comment is both specious and highly suspect, and such is not at all appreciated by me.
I will add that, with the exception of Slick 50, all of those products have value within their appropriate applications, and the OP sets up an false "either ARX is good and all the others are khrapenzie or" 'thang', which I also find highly suspect.
I don't want to argue this back and forth - but this is not the only thread I was referring too. It seems that it does not matter what thread is started on oil additives, AUTO-RX seems to work it's way in by the faithful.
Don't take the "nazi" referrence literally, it just seems that no oil additive thread can be discussed around here anymore without interjections from the Auto-RX crowd as to "why are you even considering this product when Auto-RX exists" - gets kind of tiring!
Don't take the "nazi" referrence literally, it just seems that no oil additive thread can be discussed around here anymore without interjections from the Auto-RX crowd as to "why are you even considering this product when Auto-RX exists" - gets kind of tiring!
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Can't help that Jax_RX8. I suppose all the other "ARX Nazis", like myself, recommend it to those who ask like the OP did here, because it has worked so well for us. Why do you complain about this, rather than consider with an open mind, why so many of us are so turned on?
Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
[SNIP] it just seems that no oil additive thread can be discussed around here anymore without interjections from the Auto-RX crowd as to "why are you even considering this product when Auto-RX exists" - gets kind of tiring![/SNIP]
I agree with this- it now seems as though if one even mentions LC20, for example, they get sniped. And even though LC20 and ARX are worlds apart chemistry-wise and are not to be used concurrently, LC20 is most certainly an option, albeit a "lubricious solvent" (to quote Terry D.)-based option.
Even with this, I must mention that Auto-Rx in my opinion is in a class of its own.
For the record, I use LC20 regularly in my '95 Honda Civic and treat it with ARX about every 20-25K miles or so. I am very pleased with BOTH.
This board ain't what it used to be IMO....
[SNIP] it just seems that no oil additive thread can be discussed around here anymore without interjections from the Auto-RX crowd as to "why are you even considering this product when Auto-RX exists" - gets kind of tiring![/SNIP]
I agree with this- it now seems as though if one even mentions LC20, for example, they get sniped. And even though LC20 and ARX are worlds apart chemistry-wise and are not to be used concurrently, LC20 is most certainly an option, albeit a "lubricious solvent" (to quote Terry D.)-based option.
Even with this, I must mention that Auto-Rx in my opinion is in a class of its own.
For the record, I use LC20 regularly in my '95 Honda Civic and treat it with ARX about every 20-25K miles or so. I am very pleased with BOTH.
This board ain't what it used to be IMO....
Originally Posted By: Oilgal
Can't help that Jax_RX8. I suppose all the other "ARX Nazis", like myself, recommend it to those who ask like the OP did here, because it has worked so well for us. Why do you complain about this, rather than consider with an open mind, why so many of us are so turned on?
You seem to be missing the point - I have no problem discussing ARX when it is the topic at hand, or being ARX being recommended when a recommendation is requested.
My issue is that we can't seem to talk about any other oil additive without someone pushing you to ARX as if you are some kind of idiot if you don't agree that it is the best and you should consider no other.
Sometimes, it is good to actually talk about the threads actual product or topic at hand without the, as I stated before, "why are you even considering another product" attitude or the sales pitch.
Anyways, my 2 cents for what it's worth and I'll shut up now.
Can't help that Jax_RX8. I suppose all the other "ARX Nazis", like myself, recommend it to those who ask like the OP did here, because it has worked so well for us. Why do you complain about this, rather than consider with an open mind, why so many of us are so turned on?
You seem to be missing the point - I have no problem discussing ARX when it is the topic at hand, or being ARX being recommended when a recommendation is requested.
My issue is that we can't seem to talk about any other oil additive without someone pushing you to ARX as if you are some kind of idiot if you don't agree that it is the best and you should consider no other.
Sometimes, it is good to actually talk about the threads actual product or topic at hand without the, as I stated before, "why are you even considering another product" attitude or the sales pitch.
Anyways, my 2 cents for what it's worth and I'll shut up now.
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Originally Posted By: Crashbox
Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
[SNIP] it just seems that no oil additive thread can be discussed around here anymore without interjections from the Auto-RX crowd as to "why are you even considering this product when Auto-RX exists" - gets kind of tiring![/SNIP]
I agree with this- it now seems as though if one even mentions LC20, for example, they get sniped. And even though LC20 and ARX are worlds apart chemistry-wise and are not to be used concurrently, LC20 is most certainly an option, albeit a "lubricious solvent" (to quote Terry D.)-based option.
Even with this, I must mention that Auto-Rx in my opinion is in a class of its own.
For the record, I use LC20 regularly in my '95 Honda Civic and treat it with ARX about every 20-25K miles or so. I am very pleased with BOTH.
This board ain't what it used to be IMO....
I agree, and it is neither helpful nor proper, for ARX users to be so chauvinistic about it. I was unaware that some were pouncing on LC20 users and LC20 recommendations. I have not seen this happening however, and I do read here every day.
I have been thinking of trying an LC20 treatment regimen, after I finish my second ARX treatment, because LC20 addresses varnish very well I am told. I have never said one word against LC20. How could I? I have not yet even tried it. I very likely will buy some LC20 and give it a go in the near future, despite the unpleasant pointy comments, now being lobbed in my general direction.
I will try not to judge to judge LC20 by the 'apparent' actions of one or two resentful and hyper defensive LC20 fans, who bait and attack me for using ARX, by lumping me in with the supposed "rabid ARX fanatics" aka "ARX Nazis", who supposedly go about beating up LC20 users.
I confess though, this does not help my image of LC20 at all though, and yet this situation is so incredibly pat, I am now become suspicious about what really takes place. Should I find out, that these LC20istas are really ARX insurgents, I would not buy ARX again, ever.
We shall have to see how this sad situation progresses. As it stands now, I am beginning to wonder if either product, is worth enduring this sort of Male Cow Excrement over.
Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
[SNIP] it just seems that no oil additive thread can be discussed around here anymore without interjections from the Auto-RX crowd as to "why are you even considering this product when Auto-RX exists" - gets kind of tiring![/SNIP]
I agree with this- it now seems as though if one even mentions LC20, for example, they get sniped. And even though LC20 and ARX are worlds apart chemistry-wise and are not to be used concurrently, LC20 is most certainly an option, albeit a "lubricious solvent" (to quote Terry D.)-based option.
Even with this, I must mention that Auto-Rx in my opinion is in a class of its own.
For the record, I use LC20 regularly in my '95 Honda Civic and treat it with ARX about every 20-25K miles or so. I am very pleased with BOTH.
This board ain't what it used to be IMO....
I agree, and it is neither helpful nor proper, for ARX users to be so chauvinistic about it. I was unaware that some were pouncing on LC20 users and LC20 recommendations. I have not seen this happening however, and I do read here every day.
I have been thinking of trying an LC20 treatment regimen, after I finish my second ARX treatment, because LC20 addresses varnish very well I am told. I have never said one word against LC20. How could I? I have not yet even tried it. I very likely will buy some LC20 and give it a go in the near future, despite the unpleasant pointy comments, now being lobbed in my general direction.
I will try not to judge to judge LC20 by the 'apparent' actions of one or two resentful and hyper defensive LC20 fans, who bait and attack me for using ARX, by lumping me in with the supposed "rabid ARX fanatics" aka "ARX Nazis", who supposedly go about beating up LC20 users.
I confess though, this does not help my image of LC20 at all though, and yet this situation is so incredibly pat, I am now become suspicious about what really takes place. Should I find out, that these LC20istas are really ARX insurgents, I would not buy ARX again, ever.
We shall have to see how this sad situation progresses. As it stands now, I am beginning to wonder if either product, is worth enduring this sort of Male Cow Excrement over.
I am surprised no one has mentioned Neutra 131. A few years back Bob discussed it and I believe the conclusion was that both Neutra and RX were a chemical "ester" and provided similar results.
They get to the ester in different ways (for example Auto RX is based on lanolin) but chemically they work very similar.
They get to the ester in different ways (for example Auto RX is based on lanolin) but chemically they work very similar.
dnewton3
Staff member
I, for one, am an ARX convert, due to recent experiences.
However, to be faithful to true engineering experimental doctrines, it is unfair for me to say it's the "best" because that word is so darn subjective. What I can say is that it's a very good performing product that does all it advertises, and more. That's rare in today's overhyped product-intense market.
The only true measure of any additive would be to have a fleet of vehicles, with similar disfuctions, treated with a controlled regimine and charting results. Since most of us BITOGERS don't have that widespread affliction, or those resources and ability, we state "personal" experiences. This leaves much room for subjective direction and interpretation, because they are usually singular experiences.
What intrigued me to this thread was it's title. And to be fair, when someone asks of "alternatives", there is an implied invitation of comparison, regardless of whether it's fully stated or not. And the OP specifically addressed ARX both in the title, and in the final sentence as a question.
To me, that makes the "blitzkrieg" mentality fair play.
However, to be faithful to true engineering experimental doctrines, it is unfair for me to say it's the "best" because that word is so darn subjective. What I can say is that it's a very good performing product that does all it advertises, and more. That's rare in today's overhyped product-intense market.
The only true measure of any additive would be to have a fleet of vehicles, with similar disfuctions, treated with a controlled regimine and charting results. Since most of us BITOGERS don't have that widespread affliction, or those resources and ability, we state "personal" experiences. This leaves much room for subjective direction and interpretation, because they are usually singular experiences.
What intrigued me to this thread was it's title. And to be fair, when someone asks of "alternatives", there is an implied invitation of comparison, regardless of whether it's fully stated or not. And the OP specifically addressed ARX both in the title, and in the final sentence as a question.
To me, that makes the "blitzkrieg" mentality fair play.
I'm missing something. I don't see anyone being attacked for recommending Auto-RX to the OP after the OP asked if he should pony up the money for this product. Just as prevalant as the Auto-RX "nazis" are the "I'm tired of people recommending Auto-RX" whiners or the "This board isn't what it used to be" crew.
Auto-RX has proven to be a very valuable PROVEN product. I see nothing wrong with people recommding it to others who are asking advice.
LC-20 is also a viable option but it's also pricier than the items listed.
Auto-RX has proven to be a very valuable PROVEN product. I see nothing wrong with people recommding it to others who are asking advice.
LC-20 is also a viable option but it's also pricier than the items listed.
I was once banned for aruging on here about not understanding the effectiveness of Auto-RX and being put out by the attitudes of it's believers.
Now I have near 20 bottles on the shelf in my garage.
Yep, it's that good.
You know, you folks who want to go the traditional solvent route are REALLY wasting money buying the stuff as its packaged. I can drive down the street from my office here and the hardware store sells quart and gallon bottles of all the various ingredients quite cheap in comparison to what you pay for the "mixed" product. Seriously, MEK, methanol, ethanol, toluene, acetone etc... good stuff. I love mixing the home brew up for a fuel system/cc cleaner. Can't see why the hardware store people don't think I'm the Unabomber, though.
Now I have near 20 bottles on the shelf in my garage.
Yep, it's that good.
You know, you folks who want to go the traditional solvent route are REALLY wasting money buying the stuff as its packaged. I can drive down the street from my office here and the hardware store sells quart and gallon bottles of all the various ingredients quite cheap in comparison to what you pay for the "mixed" product. Seriously, MEK, methanol, ethanol, toluene, acetone etc... good stuff. I love mixing the home brew up for a fuel system/cc cleaner. Can't see why the hardware store people don't think I'm the Unabomber, though.
I noticed just the other day, that even most of the varnish on my cams is now gone, just a short way into my second ARX clean phase.
ARX is da shiz! I would be lying to say otherwise.
ARX is da shiz! I would be lying to say otherwise.
I think that the idea that a solvent can be used in place of Auto-Rx has been delt with. So far I have not come across anything that can replace Auto-Rx. The only question now is what else can Auto-Rx do. Auto-Rx appears to have some unexplored attributes and the maintenance dose program offers benefits that have not been well explored. I think the maintanance dose, given some time and miles may prove to be a cost effective way to extend engine life. We know that Auto-Rx can do a good job restoring compression as shown in my post on a 4-cylinder Accord. I just don't see solvents producing these kind of results. The only problem I see is that Auto-Rx takes time to work and most of us want results right now. I think that's why the maintenance does program is not being recoginized for what it can do.
Auto-RX takes time, yes. But the results are worth it and they are safely achieved. I spent money on an initial two bottles a couple years back when I first discovered my 9-5 was sludged. I ran two clean rinses and there was a great improvement. Having never dealt with sludge, though, I wanted a magic bullet. I wasted at least 5 times what I paid for arx trying to find that "magic bullet" and never did. So I went back to arx and began maint dosing. Well, even the maintenance doses did more than anything else I tried!
I fixed the prevailing mechanical issue with my car by installing the latest PCV update only to be plagued by a faulty thermo that dumped a whole lot of fuel into my oil as a consequence while I was trying out the "two bottle" run. Got that swapped out and can't wait to see how well things are cleaned up after this run. I have stubborn, hard deposits. But arx has made steady progress and now my engine is much cleaner at 130k miles than it was when I picked it up used at 50k!
Sorry for wandering off into an unsolicited testimonial but my point was that I tried all forms of solvent and even a run of Redline (which was once thought to "clean things right up") As folks have said, there are just no alternatives to auto-rx...safe or otherwise.
I fixed the prevailing mechanical issue with my car by installing the latest PCV update only to be plagued by a faulty thermo that dumped a whole lot of fuel into my oil as a consequence while I was trying out the "two bottle" run. Got that swapped out and can't wait to see how well things are cleaned up after this run. I have stubborn, hard deposits. But arx has made steady progress and now my engine is much cleaner at 130k miles than it was when I picked it up used at 50k!
Sorry for wandering off into an unsolicited testimonial but my point was that I tried all forms of solvent and even a run of Redline (which was once thought to "clean things right up") As folks have said, there are just no alternatives to auto-rx...safe or otherwise.
I believe very much in Auto-RX. It worked for me and there are a lot of people at this website that are believers in it. Auto-RX was even tested. But I don't believe that discussion of other products should be prohibited.
Some of the products you mention cannot compete with Auto-RX by their very nature. For example, Slick 50, a product I do not believe in, was never really a competitor to Auto-RX; it was supposed to reduce friction in an engine and reduce wear. Auto-RX cleans an engine over time. Some of the other products you mention are not competitors to Auto-RX by their very nature.
When I first came to this website a very long time ago I heard of Auto-RX but also Bob, who at the time owned the website, talked a lot about Neutra and how it could be used to clean an engine. I have not heard much about Neutra for a long time.
Rislone is an old product that has been around for a long time. It is supposed to clean and engine and help quiet noisy lifters. I think it is old technology.
One product I have never tried but a few people believe in is Lubegard engine flush. It is supposed to clean engines and unlike other flushes it has strong detergents and not solvents. The vast majority of engine flushes are strong solvents.
If you go to the Federal Trade Commission website you will find out that many companies that made products like Slick 50 and STP Oil Treatment were fined by the federal government for false advertising.
And your list of products needed to be sorted differently. You should have one list for cleaning products, another for friction reducers, etc.
Personally I stick to Auto-RX because I know it works and 99% of these other products I avoid. I still have some faith in Lubegard products and a few other products like Bars Leaks and various fuel system cleaners. That is pretty much the end of the list. The average person is better off sticking to quality motor oil, transmission fluid, gear oil, coolant, etc. That stuff is the baseline anyway. You have to use quality motor oil and quality for other necessary stuff for your vehicle. Above the baseline is this other stuff and 99% of the additives, solvents, and other stuff is just plain junk. In an auto parts store I ignore most of these mystery chemicals, additives, friction reducers, etc.
Your high mileage car may be helped by something like Auto-RX. Or if you don't want to buy Auto-RX maybe something like Lubegard Engine Flush. This website can help you make decisions on what to use. There are a lot of people here with their own experiences and some of the people here are mechanics, engineers, etc.
Some of the products you mention cannot compete with Auto-RX by their very nature. For example, Slick 50, a product I do not believe in, was never really a competitor to Auto-RX; it was supposed to reduce friction in an engine and reduce wear. Auto-RX cleans an engine over time. Some of the other products you mention are not competitors to Auto-RX by their very nature.
When I first came to this website a very long time ago I heard of Auto-RX but also Bob, who at the time owned the website, talked a lot about Neutra and how it could be used to clean an engine. I have not heard much about Neutra for a long time.
Rislone is an old product that has been around for a long time. It is supposed to clean and engine and help quiet noisy lifters. I think it is old technology.
One product I have never tried but a few people believe in is Lubegard engine flush. It is supposed to clean engines and unlike other flushes it has strong detergents and not solvents. The vast majority of engine flushes are strong solvents.
If you go to the Federal Trade Commission website you will find out that many companies that made products like Slick 50 and STP Oil Treatment were fined by the federal government for false advertising.
And your list of products needed to be sorted differently. You should have one list for cleaning products, another for friction reducers, etc.
Personally I stick to Auto-RX because I know it works and 99% of these other products I avoid. I still have some faith in Lubegard products and a few other products like Bars Leaks and various fuel system cleaners. That is pretty much the end of the list. The average person is better off sticking to quality motor oil, transmission fluid, gear oil, coolant, etc. That stuff is the baseline anyway. You have to use quality motor oil and quality for other necessary stuff for your vehicle. Above the baseline is this other stuff and 99% of the additives, solvents, and other stuff is just plain junk. In an auto parts store I ignore most of these mystery chemicals, additives, friction reducers, etc.
Your high mileage car may be helped by something like Auto-RX. Or if you don't want to buy Auto-RX maybe something like Lubegard Engine Flush. This website can help you make decisions on what to use. There are a lot of people here with their own experiences and some of the people here are mechanics, engineers, etc.
After once again perusing this thread, there is something WRT Auto-Rx that has not yet been mentioned here, including myself: it is SAFE chemistry.
Last year I opened a bottle of ARX somewhat incorrectly and VOOSH! it went, soaking my chest. As I mentioned in an earlier post I will not have to worry about picking rutabagas with a stepladder sooner than intended because of its apparent lack of toxicity (IIRC the number one reason Frank created it!). In this regard, there is in fact no alternative to Auto-Rx whatsoever that I am aware of.
Just my two cents' worth...
Last year I opened a bottle of ARX somewhat incorrectly and VOOSH! it went, soaking my chest. As I mentioned in an earlier post I will not have to worry about picking rutabagas with a stepladder sooner than intended because of its apparent lack of toxicity (IIRC the number one reason Frank created it!). In this regard, there is in fact no alternative to Auto-Rx whatsoever that I am aware of.
Just my two cents' worth...
buy a few bottles, price gets lower the more you buy. you will like it and end up using it hopefully ongoing with maintenance doses forever
5 dollars for a quick engine flush is inviting, I agree. we have all been there looking in depth at all the additives available. it is especially true we probably have had a car or 2 where we tried just about everything to make it better or cure a concern.
I would love to tell more people about Autorx but people either don't care, look at me like I am crazy, are too stuck in there ways. you are steps beyond these "normal" people as you have come in search of answers and have obviously considered autorx.
cost might be a problem and it would be hard to know if it saves your engine or transmission from a costly mechanical repair down the road IF you use it from here on out because it will handle all the dirty work so to say so your oil can just plain lube your engine and not have to multitask.
clean then maintain
5 dollars for a quick engine flush is inviting, I agree. we have all been there looking in depth at all the additives available. it is especially true we probably have had a car or 2 where we tried just about everything to make it better or cure a concern.
I would love to tell more people about Autorx but people either don't care, look at me like I am crazy, are too stuck in there ways. you are steps beyond these "normal" people as you have come in search of answers and have obviously considered autorx.
cost might be a problem and it would be hard to know if it saves your engine or transmission from a costly mechanical repair down the road IF you use it from here on out because it will handle all the dirty work so to say so your oil can just plain lube your engine and not have to multitask.
clean then maintain
It's not for 'average joe' as you Americans say. It's for people of 'investigative intelligence' who can think 'outside the square' Do you think I would put anything else in my new (used) BMW?
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