Lookin for OTC GL-4 Gear Oil

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Mar 2, 2004
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Location
Kentucky
I need to replace the tranny fluid in a 2007 5sp Suzuki SX4. It specifically notes GL-4 as a requirement.

I'm aware of Amsoil having a GL-4 spec gear oil, but I don't want to pay higher than normal synthetic prices on top of shipping. With that being said, I don't care whether the oil is dino or synthetic. Because it's only about 3qt capacity, even if it was 5-7$ a quart it'd be far cheaper than dealer servicing.

But everywhere I've looked locally they only have GL-5 lubricant which I understand has the potential to corrode the yellow metals contained in the modern manual tranny.

Any idea where to find the GL-4 locally?
 
Maybe try a car dealership? I bought some Nissan 75W85 GL4 MTF for $9 a quart a while back from the Nissan dealer here. Funny this is that I still have all 4 quarts and never used them. I re-filled with Redline MTL and never looked back. The MTL was only $10 a quart. The only GL4-only fluid I`ve seen at an auto parts store was either a 4 or 5 quart jug of 85W90 GL4 gear oil at the Napa here (can`t remember the brand. It wasn`t a brand I`d ever heard of before).
 
GL-5 won't corrode yellow metals. Check out Mobil 1 .com. It's too slippery for syncro engagment, but might work ok. Royal Purple is the most common GL-4&5 Dual Rated. Consider he new Honda MTF II, maybe synth???
 
Take a look at Chevron Delo ESI 80W-90. It's rated both GL-4 and GL-5, as well as MT-1. I get it from the local Chevron jobber by the case. Don't remember the price, which means it was not too expensive.
 
Redline MTL or MT 90, or Pennzoil synchromesh are over the counter fluids that work very well.
Don't worry about a few dollars for several years service.
 
You probably have a few auto parts stores or speed shops that stock or can get Redline MTL and MT-90. I paid $3/bottle for shipping of Redline and 6 months later saw it out the local speedshop, and selling at a good price!

There's also probably an Amsoil dealer near you.
 
Ford dealerships should have the GL4 75w90.
Nissan has the 75w85.

You didn't mention the required weight???? For better shifting, grab the Nissan fluid.

Redline MT90 and Amsoil MTG are great choices. Many Napas, and independent auto stores(speed or 4x4 shops), carry or can order either.
 
Advance Auto also carries Redline products and can order any of the Redline stuff that they don`t have in stock at their stores.
 
See below for a portion of one of the best articles that I've run across on GL4 lubes and Castrol Syntorq. I use Syntorq in the NV4500 in my Dodge truck. As noted it appears that with lower torque / usage your needs will be less demanding and you can get by with a wider range of products with suitable drain intervals.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=995957

Is this risk really worth the reward? Brown continues; “Since applications calling for a GL-4 oil don't need the EP performance of a GL-5/MT-1 oil, the very real possibility for yellow-metal corrosion is not worth the risk. We suggest that customers follow the OEM lubricant recommendations for their equipment. If an OEM recommends a GL-4 lubricant, we would not recommend using a GL-5/MT-1 lubricant for the application.”

In spite of NVG’s lack of cooperation, we do know Syntorq LT is a very good gear lube, compliments of Castrol USA. Lubricants are often designed to provide a viscosity that is low enough for good flow characteristics in cold weather and high enough to provide adequate film thickness and lubricity in hot, high-severity service. When this hot and cold performance is required, a small response to changes in temperature is desired. The oil industry expresses this response as the V.I. (Viscosity Index). From the Data Sheets of Syntorq we find that it has a relatively high V.I. of 166. A high V.I. also indicates it is a better quality base stock to begin with. Lubes that have a high V.I. also have a lower sulfur content. Sulfur is also part of the corrosive equation that we need to avoid. Multigrade oils were first additized with polymers to increase the V.I. of an oil. Additives do not last the lifetime of the base oil, so the benefit of having a high V.I. without the additives are obvious. I also found out Syntorq is uniquely polymer free.
Specification SAE J306 was revised in June 1998 and became mandatory in January 2000. This is the first time that an SAE gear oil specification has had a shear stability requirement. It must meet the 100degC kinematic viscosity stay-in-grade requirement after a 20-hour KRL Shear Stability Test. It is quite possible many gear oils may fail to satisfy the new shear requirements due to a variety of reasons; for example, being formulated too close to the low end of the 100degC viscosity limit, or using a pour point depressant or viscosity modifier with insufficient shear stability. You guessed it, Castrol claims Syntorq meets SAE J306 too! And before 1998, Castrol used the Kurt Orbahn Shear Stability test on Syntorq to qualify its performance.

Trust me when I say my entire goal was to research a viable alternative to the OEM recommended lube. I had trouble finding any gear lubes even in the same viscosity grade. I only found one lube that even comes close in rheological terms and it wasn’t a GL-5 but a synthetic GL-4 specifically made for synchronized transmissions. Remember that the NV4500 is splash lubricated. There is no oil pump or filter in this unit, so the viscosity of the lube is extremely important and not all 75w90’s are created equal in that respect.
As far as base stocks, EP additives, buffer compounds and who uses what; knowledge is pure profit in the science of the lubrication industry and no one is sharing. There might be an equivalent gear lube at a more reasonable cost, but without a degree in petroleum engineering and the resources to test it, I won’t find it before the new GL-4 “upgrade” category comes out.

Syntorq is specifically tailored for the NV4500, no 75w90 GL-5/MT-1 I looked at even approaches it in rheological terms. It meets the new SAE J306 shear stability test. It has a higher V.I. than any of the GL-5/MT-1 alternatives I looked at and is polymer free. The NV4500 doesn’t need the extra protection of a GL-5, so why take the risk? It’s my opinion that Syntorq is the “Holy Grail” of gear lubes for our beloved under engineered NV4500. Unfortunately, Syntorq LT also comes with the “Holy Grail’s” price too! Well, what should you do? Use a less expensive GL-5/MT-1 lube (change it frequently to mitigate the risk), use the expensive Syntorq and be sure, or wait for the new GL-4 “upgrade” category to see what life brings us? Me? My only temptation would be to try a qualified synthetic GL-4 specifically made for synchronized transmissions, but I’m more inclined to just bite the bullet, pay for the Syntorq and not worry about a thing…

Your best dealer choice for Syntorq is General Motors. Ask any GM dealer for P/N 12346190. It will be substantially less than any Dodge dealer will. You can also obtain a wholesale price for Syntorq plus shipping charges from Standard Transmission of Texas.
 
"Most differential and Manual Transmission oils contain sulfur-phosphorous EP packages. GL4-rated oils contain about 40% to 60% of that amount; the other difference is the Friction Modifier.

Both differential and manual transmission fluids use chemical compounds that subdue or inhibit the corrosive effects of sulfur; calcium, magnesium, boron, potassium or other basic compounds. Emulsifiers, corrosion and rust inhibitors also are included to do their respective jobs.

Differential lubes use friction modifiers to reduce mechanical and fluid friction and add some anti-shudder friction modifier for limited slip, both very different chemical compounds.

Manual Transmission fluids use a different friction modifier for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same chemicals as differential lubes."
 
"Castrol Syntorq LT® 75w85w GL-4 rated, low temperature, synthetic gear lubricant is the only factory approved lubricant for NV4500 series transmissions. Some other lubricant manufacturers such as Amsoil may have products that are compatible. However, we have yet to see any other lubricant match the specifications of Syntorq LT®."

The Nissan 75W85 has an equivalent set of specifications as the Syntorq.
 
"...Lubes that have a high V.I. also have a lower sulfur content. Sulfur is also part of the corrosive equation that we need to avoid. Multigrade oils were first additized with polymers to increase the V.I. of an oil. Additives do not last the lifetime of the base oil, so the benefit of having a high V.I. without the additives are obvious. I also found out Syntorq is uniquely polymer free."

Hmm? An oil with a high VI does not mean that it is low in sulfur. There is no equivalency here.

How do know that Syntorq is polymer free?
 
From link above:

"Also remember that we don’t know how much EP additive is a GL-5/MT-1 rated lube. I did not find any test currently performed on gear lubes to detect the presence of EP additives. Which gear lube has EP additives and how much? We don’t know unless the manufacturer tells us. Dinwiddie comments: “I believe you are right in stating that there should be a test for buffer package amount or type and it's effectiveness over the long term. I do not know of any test like that but it may exist somewhere.”

We also don’t know what buffers are added, if any, to offset the corrosive EP additive. And if they are buffered, we don’t know how long these buffers may work. Dinwiddie adds; “I believe that you’re fighting an uphill battle, why? Because there is no way to determine if a company has used a buffer package or if the buffer package that they used will last for the oil change that the owner wants to go.” Kevin continues; “Yes the LE Gl-5 oils will reduce wear that a GL-4 will not, however, if it was my own truck, even I would use a GL-4---Why? Because you never know what you are going to have to pull or who might drive your truck and lug it or spring a leak and over heat it”

To confuse matters further, we don’t even know how much EP additives is in a GL-4 lube either. Brown states; “we often use the rule of thumb that an API GL-4 treat rate is half that recommended to meet the requirements for API GL-5. That is because API GL-4 applications do not require the high levels of EP performance (manual transmissions use spur of spiral bevel gears) and these high sulfur levels can be detrimental to copper compatibility. However, this rule of thumb is not the optimum situation, and this fact has finally been recognized within the industry.” Rule of thumb? That is not exactly a precise measurement, is it? Is any GL-4 safe or just the one the OEM recommends?"

Yes we do now how much EP additives and buffers are in a GL-5 or GL-4. Ever heard of a spectro analysis or a VOA ?

In most gear lubes, the main EP package is a Sulfur-Phosphorous additive package with TAN buffers; some calcium for rust protection, metal corrosion inhibitors (buffers) for soft metal protection, and maybe some zddp for anti-oxidation, and a little bit of dispersant.


Remember, there are two kinds of gear lubes - one type for differentials (GL - 5/MT-1) and one for manual transmissions (GL-4). The two have different additives (especially the friction modifiers) and base oil makeups.

I think they should have GL-MT1, MT2 and GL-MT3 ratings to replace the GL-4 rating.

The MT1 will have a viscosity rating of 13.0 to 15.0 cSt@100C (75W90),
the MT2 will have a viscosity rating of 9.0 to 10.5 cSt@100C (75W85),
the MT3 will have a viscosity rating of 6.0 to 8.0 cSt@100C(ATF type fluid viscosity)

In addition, the MTX series would have a max corrosion rating for metals such as aluminum and copper allloys.
 
Is Syntorq available anywhere besides a Dodge dealership?
Does Castrol have a 90wt version?
 
"I think they should have GL-MT1, MT2 and GL-MT3 ratings to replace the GL-4 rating."

Sounds like a very good idea to me.
 
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