Why is a Power Flush a no-no for Honda Trannys?

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Blue_Goose

Blue_Goose

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Reason I am asking is that I need to change out the tranny fluid on my wife's 04 3.5L Honda powered Vue.

It has about 120K on it and have been having some issues that MIGHT be related. In any event it needs to be changed anyways. I wrote to a local Honda dealer here in NH asking about a price for changing out the fluid. (Autofair in Manchester) They came back with 159 for a Power Flush.

They are a pretty big dealer in the area..if the flush is a no-no why are they doing it?

I've seen people saying that Honda does not recommend flushing the trannys but never a reason why.

Any insight why I should not have this done? I don't have the time or place to do this myself



Goose
 
Why are they doing it?
It's spelled $$$
A power flush stirs up crud that might cause more problems
than it solves.
Don't know if the Vue tranny has a filter filter or just a screen but new fluid can't hurt and might help.
Even more so if you go with synthetic fluid.
Mobil-1 is widely available.
Dex VI is a semi-sunthetic.
 
I've just read in some other forums on why and it makes sense now. Another dealer said they do the change and it is 69.95 for that service. Is this a waste if it does not get all the fluid out? unfortunately I am in a development where I can't get my Vue up on stands etc


Sounds like for 69.95 all they are doing is a drain and fill



Goose
 
Originally Posted By: Blue_Goose
I've just read in some other forums on why and it makes sense now. Another dealer said they do the change and it is 69.95 for that service. Is this a waste if it does not get all the fluid out? unfortunately I am in a development where I can't get my Vue up on stands etc


Sounds like for 69.95 all they are doing is a drain and fill



Goose

Not a waste at all.

On a Honda transmission, there isn't a traditional serviceable filter or a pan. Instead, it relies on a very large magnetic drain plug to catch any metal shavings.

On the first fluid change, especially after 120k, there will be LOTS of "goo" on the magnet. It's more important to clean out that magnet than to replace all of the fluid.

There's really nothing wrong with flushing a Honda transmission, provided that you clean that magnet. Also Honda doesn't want the transmission flushed as a lot of people do not use the correct fluid.

Power flushes don't cause any problems, they don't stir up any garbage as it is driven by the vehicle's pump.
 
Originally Posted By: steve20
3 qt replacement on 04 4 cyl - 49.95 at Madison Honda, Madison NJ

VUE 5-speed auto takes 5 quarts, so I'd say that he's getting a very good deal.

Goose, may be you could call the dealer and have them do a drain and refill AND a power flush. Perhaps they can work out a deal with you??

I just remembered that the transmission may be the culprit here, so replacing all of the fluid may be beneficial in your case.
 
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Why are they doing it?
It's spelled $$$
A power flush stirs up crud that might cause more problems
than it solves.
Don't know if the Vue tranny has a filter filter or just a screen but new fluid can't hurt and might help.
Even more so if you go with synthetic fluid.
Mobil-1 is widely available.
Dex VI is a semi-sunthetic.


I do not agree that a power flush (not really power anyway) will stir up any more crud than normally would be stirred up by running new fluid. How could it? The flush just pushes in new fluid at the same rate the old fluid is pushed out. The pump in the tranny pushes it through the tranny. If anything stirs up crud, its have a tranny full of new ATF.
 
In the trade, cynical service people refer to it as a "wallet flush"

The Honda design makes for easy drain and refill (of a significant fraction of the total oil volume) so I'm doing it every 20,000 miles.
 
Last edited:
I guess the folklore started because on a few Honda/Acura specific forums, some members have reported transmission failures not too long after a so called "transmission flush". I think Honda's recommended technique for ATF service is drain and refill. This will change approximately 3 quarts every time it's done.

With the recent poor history of Honda auto transmission (both 4 and 5 speeds), it would be hard to make a confident statement that a power flush won't harm a transmission.

Recently, I called a local transmission shop, and asked for a quote for a power flush for my transmission. They gave a price (so obviously they have the people and equipment to do it), but then they asked what kinda car, so I replied "A 2004 Honda Accord". They went, "Uh oh, no! We won't flush that for you, as you will kill the tranny. We will do a drain and refill instead."
 
Local places here in SW Florida will not do a transmission flush if the car has 100,000 + miles. Too much chance of causing more problems. I'd just do a pan drain several times (100+ miles between each. That way you should have zero problems caused by changing fluid. Ed
 
Goose, if there is no pan to drop & clean, does it have a drain plug and an easy means to fill? If that's the case, just get 5qts of spec'd ATF and drain and fill yourself.

Joel
 
If the ATF is OK, I would just freshen it with a drain & refill every 15K maybe. If it looks like driveway sealer, then maybe a flush (since you want it all out).
.
 
If I can get it up on ramps like I do to change the oil, I could do it in my parking space. I thought it was supposed to be level to get the most fluid out though...I can't put it on jack stands at my development (townhomes)

I think I'll start with the drain and fill....maybe only get about 3-4 quarts out...here is a naive question...if I do a drain and fill and in 3 months do another, how can I be assured I'm getting the older fluid out and not the newer stuff I just had put in? I know it sounds stupid but me and trannys are strangers for sure



Goose
 
Originally Posted By: Blue_Goose
If I can get it up on ramps like I do to change the oil, I could do it in my parking space. I thought it was supposed to be level to get the most fluid out though...I can't put it on jack stands at my development (townhomes)

I think I'll start with the drain and fill....maybe only get about 3-4 quarts out...here is a naive question...if I do a drain and fill and in 3 months do another, how can I be assured I'm getting the older fluid out and not the newer stuff I just had put in? I know it sounds stupid but me and trannys are strangers for sure



Goose

The vehicle should be level. However it's possibly to do a drain and refill without the aid of ramps or jack stands. The VUE has enough ground clearance.

You'll remove about 50% with a drain and refill on a VUE. The new fluid will mix with the old fluid the moment you turn on the vehicle as the transmission pump is operating.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Here are some instructions. ONLY use Honda ATF-Z1:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59617


I hear this over and over and I would never go back to Z1. The shift quality and crispness is much better with the forbidden Amsoil ATD. Not to mention that it has not changed color in 20,000 miles, something that the Z1 could not do for 2,000 miles.

Does the Vue use the drive by wire?
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Local places here in SW Florida will not do a transmission flush if the car has 100,000 + miles. Too much chance of causing more problems. I'd just do a pan drain several times (100+ miles between each. That way you should have zero problems caused by changing fluid. Ed


I am not sure a pan drain is signigicatly safer. Its the new fluid being pushed through the tranny that will loosen up crud. True introducing only 1/2 (or maybe 1/3) of the total capacity with new ATF will loosen crud more slowly than 100% (in a flush) and removing 1/2 (or 1/3) of the old fluid removes some of the loosened crud.

One way to be really safe is to install a filter like a Magnefine to remove the loosened crud.

So the places that refuse to do a flush at 100K, is that only if you have never had any service? Do you have to prove prior service?
 
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