RLI 5W-40 in my Audi?

[moribundman]

I want to hear from people other than RLI's proxies.

Any issues with veg-oil based bio lubes? Seal compatibility, yada yada...

1996 Audi A4 V6 12v engine with 160k miles on the clock
(low tension rings, valve stem seals leaky, no fuel dilution issues despite running on the rich side, fair amount of insolubles, but not critical, wear good and TBN okay with 8k mi OCI, oil consumption still within specs but nothing to write home about, engine does not produce any noticeable blue smoke blue)

Oils that have worked well in the past:
- Castrol 5W-50
- Chevron DELO 400 15W-40

Oil that worked well, but with increased oil consumption:
- M1 5W-40 T&SUV
- Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40
- Red Line 5W-30

Oil that I didn't like due to rattling noises and insane oil consumption (up to almost double of the above oils!):
-M1 0W-40

Currently using Castrol 5W-50. Consumption is about 0.6 qts per 1k miles with mostly city driving. High vacuum driving conditions definitely contribute considerably to oil consumption in this engine.

A penny for your thoughts!

 

[Shannow]

M1 0W-40 rattled ???

mori, given the specs that you've used, you must be an Australian. -5W-30 would suit your car in an American climate.

I'm in mixed minds about bio lubes.

Castor was good at what it did well, and bad at what it did poorly.

Personally (and I'll be convinced another way if it shows I'm wrong), I don't like "drying oils" in my pantry, or my engines.

If they've taken bio oils, and filled in all the missing links to stop them oxidising/polymerising, then they would be OK (but not truly bio-oils.

If they've developed anti-oxidants that will stop bio oils behaving as bio-oils, then those additives in minerals or synthetics would give stellar extended OCI results...if compatible.

I like the concept of bio based esters as an additive, not sure on wholly bio based engine oils.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
M1 0W-40 rattled ???

I should have said the valve train made ungodly noises (like a sack of nails) with the hot engine idling. The oil itself was quiet as a mouse.

Quote:
mori, given the specs that you've used, you must be an Australian. -5W-30 would suit your car in an American climate.

As long as the 5W-30 has HTHS >/=3.5 and as long as it meets some other requirements it's fine.

I'm aware of issues with bio oils, although not in detail, and I have no idea if RLI has solved all those issues satisfactorily. I'm a natural born skeptic (As if you didn't know!) and I tend to stick with the proven gear until I am reasonably sure that switching to any newfangled stuff is an improvement. That's why I'm trying to get some feedback from those of you who have some deeper understanding of the involved chemistry. So thanks for reinforcing my skepticism!

 

[buster]

I wouldn't use it only because it's expensive and your car uses a lot of oil. As a skeptic myself, RLI looks good so far. I don't think it's significanly better other high end oils however.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: buster
I wouldn't use it only because it's expensive and your car uses a lot of oil.

Don't you think I have some reasons beyond snobbery and high oil consumptions? What do you take me for, buster?

 

[buster]

Give it a shot. I'd like to see if it lowers your oil consumption any.

 

[moribundman]

"consumption" (fat finger excuse)

I'm hearing through the grapevine RLI 5w-40 is being recommended for the 12v engine. That's why I'm musing.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: buster

Give it a shot. I'd like to see if it lowers your oil consumption any.

Well, you have failed to give me any reason why I should give RLI a shot. You've only insulted me and now you want me to possibly waste my money. Good going, buster!

 

[buster]

I guess I could make up a reason? It's more eco friendly for the Bay area.

One thing that some claim about this oil is it's great cleaning ability.

 

[moribundman]

Ya know, bustah, my wallet's been cleaned out 'nuff.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
I want to hear from people other than RLI's proxies.

Any issues with veg-oil based bio lubes? Seal compatibility, yada yada...

...engine does not produce any noticeable blue smoke blue

A penny for your thoughts!


Pro: It's pretty viscous and it's got a LOT of additives.
Con: It's pretty viscous and it's got a LOT of additives.

I think other than your wallet, it won't give you the blues.

You may want to have an idependent lab check the cold temperature properties, etc. I'm just saying....it's new to the market and these things need verification.

Lastly you should compare it to this: Amsoil 10W-40. A Bavarian shoot out, by an intelligent, technical, unbiased and anal guy named moribundman. Tear down, measurements, the whole works. N=30.

 

[RI_RS4]

Mori,

Whether or not the 5W-40 will reduce your consumption is unknown. The oil is designed to have some consumption in my engine, where I see about 3/4 Qt in 5K miles, with extremely low tension rings and a 12.5:1 compression ratio. However, usually the 5W-40 BioSyn will have higher consumption on the first oil change as it interacts with the previous oil (maybe an additional 1/2 Qt per 5K miles. But this settles out in the 2nd OCI. FWIW. I've seen the same behavior of M1 0W-40 as you in all other Audi 40V and 32V engines.

This formulation is not a full HOBS oil. As others point up, Bio esters have a problem with oxidation, which is why this oil is a well-formulated blend of Bio, PAO and other base oils, along with a killer additive package. Some of the components have been posted on BITOG previously, and the percentage of HOBS is high enough to preclude a conclusion that it is being used as an additive. There is also ample research that has been done out of Penn State, Chevron and RLI concerning the chemical synergy that is seen when biodegradable HOBS and PAO base stocks are mixed.

Lonnie also had RLI create 15W-50 oil for high mileage, high oil consumption engines, which I believe is working well for him.

Also, you might ask Mola to comment. I'm sure he'll give you and informed opinion, since he has no horse in this race.

 

[G-MAN]

Since Syntec 5w50 works well and is readily available, why not stick with it?

 

[moribundman]

Everyone has a horse in the race -- even if it's a knackered mare.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Since Syntec 5w50 works well and is readily available, why not stick with it?

When I first used Syntec 5W-50 back in '97 it was a different formula. A few years back I decided to not use Castrol products out of principle anymore (over the "synthetic" controversy). The only reason I used Syntec once again was that I simply couldn't find any oil that I liked better at the time. I don't plan on sticking with Syntec. Over $6 a quart is too much for that oil.

 

[Auto-Union]

Oils should be selected on an application-basis. A lil fun with them is ok, and that's what this should be considered, just entertainment. The product from your past list most suited to your application is the Delo, but I think the most approprite oil for your car will be one not yet used. imo, a 10w-40 would be fine, Havoline DS being most interesting, a 10w-40 HM would be even better. There are also heavy 30 HM oils like Castrol and Havoline. If you want an HDEO, Delvac 1300S. If you really want synth, grab Rotella T Synth or go back to Delvac. Before trying RLI, think about what would be the desired effect and if that can be done with a less exotic product.

 

[The Critic]

You should try the new CJ-4 formulation of Delo, Rotella, SuperTech, Coastal, etc.

Given your mild climate, 15w-40 should be fine.

 

[moribundman]

Funny how everyone is so concerned with my wallet. I'm more concerned in regard to my two expensive cats, which I very much prefer to last another 160k miles. To how much ash content I am willing to subject my engine is pretty much a function of oil consumption.

RLI 5W-40 has been recommended by someone "in the know" to a 12v owner as a sort of magic bullet. I'm a fan of magic. Tell me why I should give RLI a shot, not why I should choose some other oil.

My engine has leaky valve stem seals. I may or may not fix them. I'm sort of curious enough to just not do anything and to just see and wait. The Audi's been demoted to a (beloved) beater that doesn't get driven much any more. I can afford to make some unreasonable or even bad choices here. Something is likely to be learned!

 

[sprintman]

All I'll say is your M1 0W40 experience mirrors mine in my old Mazda. I think it's a good oil for newer engines. Redline 10W40 may be worth trying IMO....s

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
All I'll say is your M1 0W40 experience mirrors mine in my old Mazda. I think it's a good oil for newer engines. Redline 10W40 may be worth trying IMO....s


Oh yeah, I know personally (meaning "beyond online") lots of folks who use M1 0W-40 with very good results. It's just not an ideal oil for my engine to begin with. Red Line is easily accessible and I can buy it over the counter locally for a decent price. I suspect however that oil consumption won't be reduced. I tried RL 5W-30 for a while and consumption quickly went up beyond what I deemed acceptable. RL 5W-30 has no VIIs, from what I hear. I wonder if my engine prefers oils that contain a fair amount of VIIs (like Castrol 5W-50). In my engine, full synthetic oils generally seem to blow by the valve stem seals more than hydrocracked oils.