Has anybody ever used the Harley Formula Plus in their big twin transmission?
harley Formula Plus
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Originally Posted By: harley145000
Has anybody ever used the Harley Formula Plus in their big twin transmission?
There's a virgin oil analysis
VOA for Formula+
Certainly, nothing wrong with putting it in your Harley transmission and primary chain case as Harley recommends 5,000 mile change intervals.
You could buy the WalMart Supertech $2 a quart 75W-90 GL-5 rated lube and be better off. Run it in your primary chain case, too.
Has anybody ever used the Harley Formula Plus in their big twin transmission?
There's a virgin oil analysis
VOA for Formula+
Certainly, nothing wrong with putting it in your Harley transmission and primary chain case as Harley recommends 5,000 mile change intervals.
You could buy the WalMart Supertech $2 a quart 75W-90 GL-5 rated lube and be better off. Run it in your primary chain case, too.
You might have issues if you run anything 75w-90 in the primary case. I wouldnt run anything thicker than an Xw-50 in there. We've seen people do that and have clutch disengagement and shifting issues because the oil is so thick. It really isn't necessary in the primary case to run anything that thick.
Originally Posted By: wizzells
You might have issues if you run anything 75w-90 in the primary case. I wouldnt run anything thicker than an Xw-50 in there. We've seen people do that and have clutch disengagement and shifting issues because the oil is so thick. It really isn't necessary in the primary case to run anything that thick.
Uh...90 weight gear oils is roughly the same vis as 50 weight motor oil.
You might have issues if you run anything 75w-90 in the primary case. I wouldnt run anything thicker than an Xw-50 in there. We've seen people do that and have clutch disengagement and shifting issues because the oil is so thick. It really isn't necessary in the primary case to run anything that thick.
Uh...90 weight gear oils is roughly the same vis as 50 weight motor oil.
Redline MTL is a gear oil with a pour point similar to 5w30 motor oil and is great for the primary. Good lubrication and no cold clutch drag. The Harley Syn3 20w50 works well in the primary as well.
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My mistake G-man, just conveying our results with that combination. We do run MTL, Formula+, and Syn3 regularly in the primary without issues. It's only when someone tries to throw a 75w-90 or thicker in there that we have any kinds of issues
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Originally Posted By: wizzells
My mistake G-man, just conveying our results with that combination. We do run MTL, Formula+, and Syn3 regularly in the primary without issues. It's only when someone tries to throw a 75w-90 or thicker in there that we have any kinds of issues
Formula+ in the primary chain case is different from 75W-90 gear oil , how?
75W-90 gear oil is virtually the same viscosity as the Harley Davidson Formula+ (50 weight). Formula+ specs as a GL-3 single-vis lube.
There are two double-row gears, a double row chain and a clutch basket in there so it's certainly not a candidate for high-tech lubrication.
What problems are you seeing with 75W-90 GL-5 lubes in the BT primary chain cases?
Maybe this is something new?
And then there are the Sportsters that share the same oil in the primary and the transmission. A favorite lube is the M1 Synthetic 75W-90.
I'm on bike #41 and have used everything from ATF to straight 60 weight motor oil in primary chain cases over the years without incident. Never had a bearing or clutch or tensioner failure.
Now I understand that HD was having a bearing failure problem in 2006/2007 but that turns out to be a defect - not a lubrication problem.
Clutch engagement/disengagement in temperatures under, say, 40 degrees is better server by a synthetic ATF or a 5W-30 motor oil in the primary chain case.
My mistake G-man, just conveying our results with that combination. We do run MTL, Formula+, and Syn3 regularly in the primary without issues. It's only when someone tries to throw a 75w-90 or thicker in there that we have any kinds of issues
Formula+ in the primary chain case is different from 75W-90 gear oil , how?
75W-90 gear oil is virtually the same viscosity as the Harley Davidson Formula+ (50 weight). Formula+ specs as a GL-3 single-vis lube.
There are two double-row gears, a double row chain and a clutch basket in there so it's certainly not a candidate for high-tech lubrication.
What problems are you seeing with 75W-90 GL-5 lubes in the BT primary chain cases?
Maybe this is something new?
And then there are the Sportsters that share the same oil in the primary and the transmission. A favorite lube is the M1 Synthetic 75W-90.
I'm on bike #41 and have used everything from ATF to straight 60 weight motor oil in primary chain cases over the years without incident. Never had a bearing or clutch or tensioner failure.
Now I understand that HD was having a bearing failure problem in 2006/2007 but that turns out to be a defect - not a lubrication problem.
Clutch engagement/disengagement in temperatures under, say, 40 degrees is better server by a synthetic ATF or a 5W-30 motor oil in the primary chain case.
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Originally Posted By: wizzells
My mistake G-man, just conveying our results with that combination. We do run MTL, Formula+, and Syn3 regularly in the primary without issues. It's only when someone tries to throw a 75w-90 or thicker in there that we have any kinds of issues
Formula+ in the primary chain case is different from 75W-90 gear oil , how?
75W-90 gear oil is virtually the same viscosity as the Harley Davidson Formula+ (50 weight). Formula+ specs as a GL-3 single-vis lube.
There are two double-row gears, a double row chain and a clutch basket in there so it's certainly not a candidate for high-tech lubrication.
What problems are you seeing with 75W-90 GL-5 lubes in the BT primary chain cases?
Maybe this is something new?
And then there are the Sportsters that share the same oil in the primary and the transmission. A favorite lube is the M1 Synthetic 75W-90.
I'm on bike #41 and have used everything from ATF to straight 60 weight motor oil in primary chain cases over the years without incident. Never had a bearing or clutch or tensioner failure.
Now I understand that HD was having a bearing failure problem in 2006/2007 but that turns out to be a defect - not a lubrication problem.
Clutch engagement/disengagement in temperatures under, say, 40 degrees is better server by a synthetic ATF or a 5W-30 motor oil in the primary chain case.
This stuff is somewhat new to me - the vis of gear oils versus motor oils, so I apoligize if I'm missing some of the depth of knowledge.
I realize the primary is not a candidate for high tech lubrication, darn near anything will work in there.
The main problems we've seen haven't been parts failures related to the thicker lube. The problem has been ease of shifting, finding neutral, and clutch disengagement. I dont know if it has something to do with some of the particular brands people have tried in there, but every single time that we've put F+, Syn3, MTL, or Light shockproof (in the XL platform) in their place, those issues have disappeared. Heck, we've even had people put the HD360 in there with no problems.
kballowe, which bearing have you heard of problems with in the primary?? I havent seen a single one of these, so Im curious.
Originally Posted By: wizzells
My mistake G-man, just conveying our results with that combination. We do run MTL, Formula+, and Syn3 regularly in the primary without issues. It's only when someone tries to throw a 75w-90 or thicker in there that we have any kinds of issues
Formula+ in the primary chain case is different from 75W-90 gear oil , how?
75W-90 gear oil is virtually the same viscosity as the Harley Davidson Formula+ (50 weight). Formula+ specs as a GL-3 single-vis lube.
There are two double-row gears, a double row chain and a clutch basket in there so it's certainly not a candidate for high-tech lubrication.
What problems are you seeing with 75W-90 GL-5 lubes in the BT primary chain cases?
Maybe this is something new?
And then there are the Sportsters that share the same oil in the primary and the transmission. A favorite lube is the M1 Synthetic 75W-90.
I'm on bike #41 and have used everything from ATF to straight 60 weight motor oil in primary chain cases over the years without incident. Never had a bearing or clutch or tensioner failure.
Now I understand that HD was having a bearing failure problem in 2006/2007 but that turns out to be a defect - not a lubrication problem.
Clutch engagement/disengagement in temperatures under, say, 40 degrees is better server by a synthetic ATF or a 5W-30 motor oil in the primary chain case.
This stuff is somewhat new to me - the vis of gear oils versus motor oils, so I apoligize if I'm missing some of the depth of knowledge.
I realize the primary is not a candidate for high tech lubrication, darn near anything will work in there.
The main problems we've seen haven't been parts failures related to the thicker lube. The problem has been ease of shifting, finding neutral, and clutch disengagement. I dont know if it has something to do with some of the particular brands people have tried in there, but every single time that we've put F+, Syn3, MTL, or Light shockproof (in the XL platform) in their place, those issues have disappeared. Heck, we've even had people put the HD360 in there with no problems.
kballowe, which bearing have you heard of problems with in the primary?? I havent seen a single one of these, so Im curious.
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[/quote]
This stuff is somewhat new to me - the vis of gear oils versus motor oils, so I apoligize if I'm missing some of the depth of knowledge.
I realize the primary is not a candidate for high tech lubrication, darn near anything will work in there.
The main problems we've seen haven't been parts failures related to the thicker lube. The problem has been ease of shifting, finding neutral, and clutch disengagement. I dont know if it has something to do with some of the particular brands people have tried in there, but every single time that we've put F+, Syn3, MTL, or Light shockproof (in the XL platform) in their place, those issues have disappeared. Heck, we've even had people put the HD360 in there with no problems.
kballowe, which bearing have you heard of problems with in the primary?? I havent seen a single one of these, so Im curious. [/quote]
There are a few threads regarding bearing failures on the HD forums - here's one
Bearing failures
I agree that some fluids seem to provide "better shifting" than others and that the Formula+ does a nice job. And you're right that you can use just about anything in the primary.
In my mind there are cheaper and better fluids for the transmission than the Formula+. However, the proof is in the pudding, so they say. I've seen many 100,000+ mile bikes running nothing but Formula+ in the transmissions. So..... it certainly doesn't harm anything.
I think the point I was trying to make is that while the Formula+ works well for the intended purpose, it is certainly nothing special. But - looking at the virgin oil analysis makes me wonder how they get $6 a quart for the stuff.
This stuff is somewhat new to me - the vis of gear oils versus motor oils, so I apoligize if I'm missing some of the depth of knowledge.
I realize the primary is not a candidate for high tech lubrication, darn near anything will work in there.
The main problems we've seen haven't been parts failures related to the thicker lube. The problem has been ease of shifting, finding neutral, and clutch disengagement. I dont know if it has something to do with some of the particular brands people have tried in there, but every single time that we've put F+, Syn3, MTL, or Light shockproof (in the XL platform) in their place, those issues have disappeared. Heck, we've even had people put the HD360 in there with no problems.
kballowe, which bearing have you heard of problems with in the primary?? I havent seen a single one of these, so Im curious. [/quote]
There are a few threads regarding bearing failures on the HD forums - here's one
Bearing failures
I agree that some fluids seem to provide "better shifting" than others and that the Formula+ does a nice job. And you're right that you can use just about anything in the primary.
In my mind there are cheaper and better fluids for the transmission than the Formula+. However, the proof is in the pudding, so they say. I've seen many 100,000+ mile bikes running nothing but Formula+ in the transmissions. So..... it certainly doesn't harm anything.
I think the point I was trying to make is that while the Formula+ works well for the intended purpose, it is certainly nothing special. But - looking at the virgin oil analysis makes me wonder how they get $6 a quart for the stuff.
Originally Posted By: kballowe
I think the point I was trying to make is that while the Formula+ works well for the intended purpose, it is certainly nothing special. But - looking at the virgin oil analysis makes me wonder how they get $6 a quart for the stuff.
Because it's got "Harley-Davidson" on the label.
I think the point I was trying to make is that while the Formula+ works well for the intended purpose, it is certainly nothing special. But - looking at the virgin oil analysis makes me wonder how they get $6 a quart for the stuff.
Because it's got "Harley-Davidson" on the label.
very true gman the hd lable has alot to do with the price
Yeah. The thing that gets me is that there is no SAE rating or any other rating on the HD lubrication products. They have some words that tell you that it's good for your Harley, but there are no certifications. With all the hub-bub surrounding the NEW! IMPROVED! Formula+ I would have expected a lot more than the virgin oil anaysis showed, especially at $6 a quart.
Anyone know of a VOA for the HD 360 and Syn3 oils?
Anyone know of a VOA for the HD 360 and Syn3 oils?
HD could put noting on the label and still sell it. They keep it secret to avoid the competition. There are HD owers who will argue to the death over using nothing but HD products.
I get some cold clutch drag with Syn3 in the primary (especially with the Sportster) but none with Redline MTL. I would imagine you would get lots of cold clutch drag with 75w90. Way too gooey when cold IMO.
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Anyone know of a VOA for the HD 360 and Syn3 oils?
Here's one for Syn 3. Look under "Harley-Davidson" :
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478127#Post478127
Anyone know of a VOA for the HD 360 and Syn3 oils?
Here's one for Syn 3. Look under "Harley-Davidson" :
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478127#Post478127
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