Why don't any auto companies endorse ARX??

[kyle morley]

I got thinking. Sludge is currently a major and expensive problem for VW, Saab and Toyota, among others. If there are products that can really desludge and engine, without taking it apart, why hasn't any of these companies endorsed them?

I know there is a inbred bias against "snake oils", but several of them have recently started recommending, or even supplying, Barsleak as an alternative to replacing head gaskets, so you'd think they'd be delighted to find a sludge remover.

 

[darkdan]

Bias.

And they wouldn't want to admit they have to rely on someone else.

Plus, they have no way of distrubuting the product.

Let's not forget they most likely don't know about it.

 

[TomH]

I wouldn't exactly call Bars Leak a "snake oil", and GM has been using this stuff as long as I can remember(at least 30 years).

 

[HerkyJim]

"I got thinking" Now there ya'go, thinkin' again. Youse know this place is about faith...

 

[unDummy]

Automakers don't make engines that sludge

Oil companies don't make oils that sludge

Vehicle owners make sludge

 

[Virtuoso]

They would rather sell you their (insert automaker here) brand of engine flush or top engine cleaner.

 

[Cutehumor]

even better yet they like to sell you a new car!

 

[Frank]

Dyson Oil Analysis-Auto-Rx agreed to let Lubrzoil test our chemistry, we signed non compete-non disclosure agreements(at Lubrizoil's request) Lubrizoil tested and had there oil company customers test Auto-Rx (Lubrizoil makes the additive packages for many of the oils discussed on this board)WE DID GREAT. The major's want Auto-Rx to replace some of the additives now used in there oil.

They want Auto-Rx to perform at 1/16th/of an ounce in each quart of oil(impossible Auto-Rx starts off as a natural occuring ester and works on strict ratio's) We did learn how great 2 ounces of Auto-Rx (after engine is cleaned )performs with oil change.This has got lost on the board. We have a Japanese Car Manufacture who uses Auto-Rx (in one state) at every used car department in there new car dealerships.There gross profits have improved greatly as there after sale callbacks on used vehicles have declined.

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by unDummy:
Automakers don't make engines that sludge

Oil companies don't make oils that sludge

Vehicle owners make sludge

---

EXACTLY. If they were to endorse ARX, then they would be tacitly admitting that the sludge commonly exists and it is a problem for their vehicles.

We all know that certain engines have more of a propensity to become sludged-up, regardless of the OCI's, but the manufacturers don't want it widely known among the general public that this is a problem.

As long as they can maintain the facade of "user error" they will.

Great point!

 

[kyle morley]

I disagree. Auto makers stonewall as long as they can, but all the aforementioned companies have acknowledged they have sludge problems, and recommended specific oils and change intervals to cope with it. Since they have recommended specific oils, recommending a cleaner would not be a very great leap.

 

[Steve S]

how about, what is in it for me$$$$$

 

[TheTanSedan]

Nice news, Frank, to see your product is generating interest among the big players. Good luck.

 

[unDummy]

You're right Frank. Maintenance dosing autorx isn't mentioned too often here anymore. One 12oz bottle split between 4-6 OCI's, could become a very cost effective sludge preventer.

 

[C4Dave]

Frank...What are the benefits of using a 2 ounce maintenance dose? Will I never need to clean again?

 

[LarryD]

There are two ways to go with Auto-Rx. Either use it every 25,000 miles or use a maintenance dose of 2-3 ounces after each oil change. Hopefully it is obvious that contaminants will return if nothing is done and that periodic cleaning is necessary. However, a 2-3 ounce maintenance dose will keep your engine at the baseline established by the initial cleaning. This means that performance and mpg gains should not degrade due to contaminant or sludge build-up.

If your engine is sludgemaker (like my 3.0 Solara) then a 3 ounce maintenance dose is really mandatory or else sludge will return pretty quick. For me, it is better to err on the side of caution.

 

[ALS]

Like my Volvo 2.3 liter 4 cylinder Turbo which is filled with M1 and 3 oz's of Auto-RX. My engine with 40K miles on it is cleaner than the 2005 Volvo's at their first 7,500 mile oil change.

 

[Huhwhye]

Does the maintenance does work the same with synthetic oils

 

[JohnBrowning]

I think that one reason we do not see as much mention of the maintenance dosage of RX technique is due in part to LC!! LC works so well in a maintenance area for far less then Auto-RX! I also think that the fact that a gallon of LC was about the same in cost as 12oz. bottle of RX also plays a role!

In my mind you have to have a sludge beast to make RX cost effective! LC is cost effective no matter what state your engine is in. My Toyota's do not use buna gaskets so RX can not do anyting for any seal isse I would ever have! I do not have sludge beast so LC does just fine for keeping them clean! My GM products seals did not respond to RX at all so I figure it is a mechanical issue with the seal's or their surface. RX never touched the varnish in my Buick but LC removed it all in one treatment!

Do not get me wrong Auto-RX is a great product and does what it claims to do in 98% of applications!! I just do not think Auto-RX is that great of a product for general maintenance in an engine that does not have a sludge issue!!!

I think it is about like vitimin-c v/s anti-biotics! Anti-biotics are great at fighting bacterial infections but not so good as a maintence health supplement. Vitimin-C on the other hand is great for maintenance but not so good as a treatment for bacterial infection.

It is an easy sell to get someone to use LC each oil change but much harder sell to get someone to use Auto-RX each oil change!

 

[ALS]

John you said something about LC removing the varnish in your Buick. I picked up a 97 Volvo 960 that was maintained fairly well. I'm running a Auto-Rx treatment right now with 68K miles on the car. I would love to get rid of the dark varnish off the rockers. The PO did regular oil changes but followed the book with dino.
I haven't heard anything about LC getting rid of Varnish before. Tell me more please.

 

[Terry]

The maintenance dosage of RX technique is one that I have not tested in depth.

I have many customers who use it and they have good results in analysis but we haven't isolated the technique out to verify the effect. I agree with LarryD that it probably does help maintain the cleanliness level but to what degree and optimum treat rates I can't say for sure. I KNOW that 2.2 ounces per qt is a very efficient cleaning treat rate.

Tan Sedan asked me about a year and half ago to advise on the filtration technique of using wire metal screen oil filters and a steady dose of Auto-RX to form what I believe could be the near perfect combination of mechanical and chemical filtration.

I am sorry to say that I haven't received funding for that project, nor have had time or money to address that on my own , Ross. I apologize for not getting back to you earlier on the issue but this thread reminded me !

Auto-Rx is such a unexplored chemistry that we just haven't got all the answers to what it is capable of.

Ted mentioned in another thread that using it with a cheaper oil would make a nice blend, and I agree. What that optimum treat would be requires more testing too..