Why does Ford resell lemons?

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by MotoGuzzi
I worked in the auto industry and handled many Lemon Law buybacks....


So was it a matter of a specific dealer in the Detroit area having better technicians? Technicians who had access to *all* of the factory tools, and even spare parts to throw at it? Access to test tools that might not be available at the dealer level? Access to manufacturer engineering resources?

Why Detroit? Did the specific manufacturer want the data on repairing the lemons to feed back into their design, manufacturing, and perhaps even customer fulfillment processes?

Just curious if you can provide any further insight...


Sometimes it just needs to get to the right person. Usually when there is a "comeback" or a "re-check" it goes back to the same person who worked on it. In my experience in such situations it is best to have a different person look at it to either start from scratch or with a more open mind when doing diagnostics.

 

[MotoGuzzi]

PITZEL, there was no secret stuff with the Detroit dealer, they were simply a competent shop who did diagnostics and fixed cars. In my career I saw many situations where you had a car that a dealer cold not fix and you moved it to another dealer that you trusted and amazingly the car got fixed.Techs are not willing to admit that they did not do proper diagnostics, they tend to make a guess and throw parts at a car. I remember a car that the auto temp AC was not working properly. We asked the dealer to do specific diagnostics and they claimed to do so. They checked the pins on the electrical block and said they were ok. They had it apart several times . After I bought it back the dealer in Detroit told me that it took their tech 30 minutes to determine that two pins were reversed. BINGO, a competent tech fixed it. It's all about having a competent tech working for a good service manager. Good tech assistance is available from corporate assistance but their direction is only as good as the info they get from the local tech. When the tech says I'll hold the phone next to the car, you tell me what is wrong, you don't have a chance.

 

[Electromotive]

I seem to recall reading somewhere years ago that Dodge/Chrysler in the 1980's (?) may have been selling vehicles that were used in low speed crash tests after replacing damaged parts to conform to original factory specs. I guess that these vehicles were not lemons by definition, but still would be a concern to some buyers.

 

[methusaleh]

In the mid-90s, I had a contract assignment at a vocational high school with a huge automotive department. A local GM family dealership gave (donated?) lemons to the auto shop for the students to troubleshoot and disassemble. If I recall correctly, they had decals on the windshields denoting this.

 

[bdcardinal]

In the mid-90s, I had a contract assignment at a vocational high school with a huge automotive department. A local GM family dealership gave (donated?) lemons to the auto shop for the students to troubleshoot and disassemble. If I recall correctly, they had decals on the windshields denoting this.

We had those when I did the auto tech program at Santa Barbara City College.

 

[Snowflake White]

In the mid-90s, I had a contract assignment at a vocational high school with a huge automotive department. A local GM family dealership gave (donated?) lemons to the auto shop for the students to troubleshoot and disassemble. If I recall correctly, they had decals on the windshields denoting this.

I figure the dealer probably figures that the skill level of the teacher is probably better than any of the techs they have at the store. lol
Probably count of the school figuring it out and maybe being able to get the car back to sell at some point. lol

 

[Zee09]

Cause everyone is looking for a deal.

 

[Dinoburner]

Lemon lawed a 1994 GMC S15 jimmy that was forced out of state by the DOT. Problem with the ABS that could not be resolved by 3 different dealers. It took 2 years to settle and I only got wholesale plus paid for all the addons that I did. Since it was unsafe was glad to be done with it. Conscience wouldn`t let me sell it.as problem was erratic.

 

[kstanf150]

All brands sell off they’re dirty laundry !

 

[Dieselsmoke]

Its very simple cars are money! They are in business to make money be the same to wreak your car ins co pays a body shop to fix then back to you short of what's the value You have no idea what some new cars goes thru before they are delivered, I seen new trucks come in 100s with dash boards ripped up to steel radios from there trip from Mexico all repaired sold new windshield damaged the list goes on (Little tip always check your glass on your car to see if it all matches when your think of buying) what I am saying it all come down to one thing $$$$$ v Value

 

[nthach]

In the mid-90s, I had a contract assignment at a vocational high school with a huge automotive department. A local GM family dealership gave (donated?) lemons to the auto shop for the students to troubleshoot and disassemble. If I recall correctly, they had decals on the windshields denoting this.

My local community college also did that too, the GM donation was a Saturn, Honda donated two Accords - one was a body in white. The Accord body in white was pretty cool to look at.

oddly enough, when I was there taking auto body classes to fulfill my general ed electives the auto tech department was gearing up to train on hybrids. This was back in 2007, and I wonder why Toyota didn’t donate a lemon law or totaled Prius from the auctions.

 

[DGXR]

If someone is willing to buy a problem vehicle with full knowledge of the defect (signed disclaimer / consent), that's their choice.
I can only imagine other automakers don't resell their lemons because of concern about the brand image / reputation.
Not that Ford doesn't care about their image, they just care more about making money LOL.

 

[Breanna]

PITZEL, there was no secret stuff with the Detroit dealer, they were simply a competent shop who did diagnostics and fixed cars. In my career I saw many situations where you had a car that a dealer cold not fix and you moved it to another dealer that you trusted and amazingly the car got fixed.Techs are not willing to admit that they did not do proper diagnostics, they tend to make a guess and throw parts at a car. I remember a car that the auto temp AC was not working properly. We asked the dealer to do specific diagnostics and they claimed to do so. They checked the pins on the electrical block and said they were ok. They had it apart several times . After I bought it back the dealer in Detroit told me that it took their tech 30 minutes to determine that two pins were reversed. BINGO, a competent tech fixed it. It's all about having a competent tech working for a good service manager. Good tech assistance is available from corporate assistance but their direction is only as good as the info they get from the local tech. When the tech says I'll hold the phone next to the car, you tell me what is wrong, you don't have a chance.

Similar to the aviation industry. My Dad employs 13 Aircraft Maintenance Engineers, it has taken him a long time to get 13 good ones. So many couldn't diagnose even a simple issue. Anyone can just bolt on new parts, but good ones solve problem.
Lemon lawed vehicles, now repaired are great. The neighbor next door to us has 3 in his family, my cousin drives one, my best friend's dad also has one, all are wonderful!

 

[kstanf150]

Similar to the aviation industry. My Dad employs 13 Aircraft Maintenance Engineers, it has taken him a long time to get 13 good ones. So many couldn't diagnose even a simple issue. Anyone can just bolt on new parts, but good ones solve problem.
Lemon lawed vehicles, now repaired are great. The neighbor next door to us has 3 in his family, my cousin drives one, my best friend's dad also has one, all are wonderful!

Sorta like buying refurb stuff.
All the kinks are worked out

 

[atikovi]

[Does Ford have a policy that allows dealers to do this? Or do they just build more lemons than others? Or do others just crush/scrap their lemons? It
can't just be me seeing all of these buy backs for sale on dealer lots.

You expect them to scrap $40,000 or $50,000 cars? Not going to happen. Most often these cars get bought back because the dealer techs didn't fix the car to the customers satisfaction so they complained enough that the manufacturer bought it back to avoid the costs of litigation. Sometimes it was a subjective issue like engine vibration or suspension noise.

 

[Breanna]

You expect them to scrap $40,000 or $50,000 cars? Not going to happen. Most often these cars get bought back because the dealer techs didn't fix the car to the customers satisfaction so they complained enough that the manufacturer bought it back to avoid the costs of litigation. Sometimes it was a subjective issue like engine vibration or suspension noise.

Exactly!
How about those people who one day drive past a brick wall with the windows down, hear the engine noise, then complain it's too loud. Or their 10 speed automatic drops multiple gears at once sometimes, like it was designed to do, but they grumbled so badly Ford took it back. My cousin Drives a beautiful Mustang with V8 and 10 speed, because the injectors tick too loudly, and 10 speed will downshift aggressively if it gets floored suddenly. I get to drive it occasionall, that car is awesome! Punch it, and watch it drop 3 gears suddenly, and then a rush of acceleration! Borrowed it for a 4 day road trip last summer, it was hard to give back. To give my cousin (a mechanic) full confidence in the engine and transmission, Ford up the warranty on the engine and transmission to 5 years/100,000 kms from the day he purchased it.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Exactly!
How about those people who one day drive past a brick wall with the windows down, hear the engine noise, then complain it's too loud. Or their 10 speed automatic drops multiple gears at once sometimes, like it was designed to do, but they grumbled so badly Ford took it back. My cousin Drives a beautiful Mustang with V8 and 10 speed, because the injectors tick too loudly, and 10 speed will downshift aggressively if it gets floored suddenly. I get to drive it occasionall, that car is awesome! Punch it, and watch it drop 3 gears suddenly, and then a rush of acceleration! Borrowed it for a 4 day road trip last summer, it was hard to give back. To give my cousin (a mechanic) full confidence in the engine and transmission, Ford up the warranty on the engine and transmission to 5 years/100,000 kms from the day he purchased it.

V8 Mustangs are SWEET!! One of my fave cars!!

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Because that's all they make in the first place

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Subaru does it all the time. And the people that buy new Subarus are morons that complain about everything, including buying a manual and realizing they can't drive a manual, so Subaru, in their effort retain customer loyalty, will buy back the car under the lemon law, when there is really nothing wrong with the car.

Apparently Subaru will even replace the clutch if you kill it within 36000 miles!

 

[avacado11]

You expect them to scrap $40,000 or $50,000 cars? Not going to happen. Most often these cars get bought back because the dealer techs didn't fix the car to the customers satisfaction so they complained enough that the manufacturer bought it back to avoid the costs of litigation. Sometimes it was a subjective issue like engine vibration or suspension noise.

not necessarily scrap, but send them off to auction so it ends up at an independent lot instead of a franchised lot. I have yet to see any other manufacture retail buy back units next to their new cars.

Curious if it’s policy for other manufactures and Ford doesn’t follow it or what the deal is.