When is your older engine TOO clean?

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45ACP

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Meaning, when is your older high mileage (~150,000miles+) engine in danger of getting cleaned SO much that any "problems" masked by "sealer sludge" (is there such a thing? Never could figure out how it would) get cleaned away and cause "issues" where there were none.

NOTE: This has NOTHING to do with conventional vs. Synthetic oil, some engines are fine some arent its hit or miss.. i am asking about Seafoam applications, MMO applications, Kreen, A-Rx, quart of ATF in with oil, other cleaning methods that are Fast and Furious and when do you clean an engine up TOO much (piston soak, seafoam in brake booster line, etc etc.) Leaks..
Gaskets failing..
Slow leaks...
Slowly disappearing coolant a la HG leak, on oil side, due to intense cleaning...
Newfound exhaust smoke signals colors and smells.. more whitish and just a HINT of antifreeze..

?
 
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
i am asking about Seafoam applications, MMO applications, Kreen, A-Rx, quart of ATF in with oil, other cleaning methods that are Fast and Furious and when do you clean an engine up TOO much (piston soak, seafoam ?

My advise is don't use those additives at all then you won't have a problem. If you want to remedy a problem go gently by simply using a synthetic oil.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
i am asking about Seafoam applications, MMO applications, Kreen, A-Rx, quart of ATF in with oil, other cleaning methods that are Fast and Furious and when do you clean an engine up TOO much (piston soak, seafoam ?

My advise is don't use those additives at all then you won't have a problem. If you want to remedy a problem go gently by simply using a synthetic oil.


I think i may follow that advice! Every time i get a used car i want to IMMEDIATELY do the following things:

1. Change spark plugs, piston-soaking the cylinders with Seafoam for ~2 days.
2. Seafoam the car through the brake booster.
3. Put SeaFoam in the gas...
4. Put SeaFoam in the oil fill that came with it, drive ~200 miles, change oil. The choice of oil will always be determined by the car, your input, and the oil itself. And, of course, the car and engine.

Is that too much? Its been awhile since i purchased a used vehicle.
 
I think it always is a case by case scenario.

There are plenty of used cars with 150k +/- that have spotless engines and do not NEED an instant cleaning regimen right away.

If an engine hasn't been maintained properly and is in need of cleaning... again it's a case by case thing. Car A might need a piston soak where as car B just needs a light dose of MMO for example and a few OCIs with a high mileage oil to clean up some minor varnish from the valvetrain.
21.gif


I personally prefer to use a cleaning method that is completely safe to do during each and every oil change.

Take Amsoil's Engine Flush. Pour in the whole bottle before an oil change, idle for 10-15 mins and drain the oil. You can do this during EVERY oil change to help remove any leftover stuff that might have accumulated during the oil run or leftover stuff from negligent maintenance.

I don't do sea foam in the intake because it's better to remove the manifold and clean it during routine maintenance, light a timing belt service, valve adjustment, etc where many parts are removed. Same with the throttle body cleaning.

I use either Redline or Amsoil's Pi fuel system additives but again, not often because i use quality fuels from name brand gas stations like Shell, which have cleaners in the fuel... "Supposedly"

It's also best to remove a valve cover or two to examine the engine and perhaps keep doing cleaning cycles until desired cleanliness occurs. (again, with products that are not too aggressive and safe to use constantly, not just once)

Time is also an issue. A 5 year old engine with 150,000 miles of neglect will not suffer from aggressive cleaning as much as a 15 year old engine with 150,000 miles would. Engine seals aren't as fragile in a newer engine as much as when those rubber seals are 15 years old. Makes sense right?

I've been using the Amsoil Engine Flush during every oil change in my 98 Camry V6 with 212,000 miles for about 3 or 4 oil changes now (5k OCIs)

I took pictures of the valvetrain before i started using Amsoil and will pull the front valve cover to attain accurate after pictures in the next few weeks. Comparing before and after results will be rather easy i think, if any noticeable difference will even be there.

here's what i was working with about 20,000 miles ago

IMG_1042.jpg


This is a car that i've had since new in 97 and has had 3-5k mile oil changes with Mobil 1 since new. It is a known sludger engine so i'm not surprised by the minor varnish build up in certain areas of the head.

Like i said, before and after pics coming soon and we'll see what 4 doses of Amsoil Engine Flush and running Amsoil synthetic oil with 5k OCIs has achieved.
thumbsup2.gif


Just my
49.gif
 
If additives were so horrible, they would not put them in gasoline and oil.
For us additionally , a good in tank fuel system cleaner is great every year .
Cleaners in the oil? Rarely, but use as needed.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
I think it always is a case by case scenario.

There are plenty of used cars with 150k +/- that have spotless engines and do not NEED an instant cleaning regimen right away.

If an engine hasn't been maintained properly and is in need of cleaning... again it's a case by case thing. Car A might need a piston soak where as car B just needs a light dose of MMO for example and a few OCIs with a high mileage oil to clean up some minor varnish from the valvetrain.
21.gif


I personally prefer to use a cleaning method that is completely safe to do during each and every oil change.

Take Amsoil's Engine Flush. Pour in the whole bottle before an oil change, idle for 10-15 mins and drain the oil. You can do this during EVERY oil change to help remove any leftover stuff that might have accumulated during the oil run or leftover stuff from negligent maintenance.

I don't do sea foam in the intake because it's better to remove the manifold and clean it during routine maintenance, light a timing belt service, valve adjustment, etc where many parts are removed. Same with the throttle body cleaning.

I use either Redline or Amsoil's Pi fuel system additives but again, not often because i use quality fuels from name brand gas stations like Shell, which have cleaners in the fuel... "Supposedly"

It's also best to remove a valve cover or two to examine the engine and perhaps keep doing cleaning cycles until desired cleanliness occurs. (again, with products that are not too aggressive and safe to use constantly, not just once)

Time is also an issue. A 5 year old engine with 150,000 miles of neglect will not suffer from aggressive cleaning as much as a 15 year old engine with 150,000 miles would. Engine seals aren't as fragile in a newer engine as much as when those rubber seals are 15 years old. Makes sense right?

I've been using the Amsoil Engine Flush during every oil change in my 98 Camry V6 with 212,000 miles for about 3 or 4 oil changes now (5k OCIs)

I took pictures of the valvetrain before i started using Amsoil and will pull the front valve cover to attain accurate after pictures in the next few weeks. Comparing before and after results will be rather easy i think, if any noticeable difference will even be there.

here's what i was working with about 20,000 miles ago

IMG_1042.jpg


This is a car that i've had since new in 97 and has had 3-5k mile oil changes with Mobil 1 since new. It is a known sludger engine so i'm not surprised by the minor varnish build up in certain areas of the head.

Like i said, before and after pics coming soon and we'll see what 4 doses of Amsoil Engine Flush and running Amsoil synthetic oil with 5k OCIs has achieved.
thumbsup2.gif


Just my
49.gif



4 Doses of Amsoil engine flush? Over how long a period of time? I'd love to see the after shots, 4 treatments should have that engine spotless!
 
I will say this...if the car breaks after using something even as intense as Kreen(aside from a sludge monster that gets a cunk loose, just talking deposits and varnish here)...you could have just as easily broken down on a cross-country trip. Just a thought.

I'm sorta torn, I can see both sides of the reasoning here.

ADDED: Probably explains why I haven't just grabbed Kreen for my '92 Civic...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
i am asking about Seafoam applications, MMO applications, Kreen, A-Rx, quart of ATF in with oil, other cleaning methods that are Fast and Furious and when do you clean an engine up TOO much (piston soak, seafoam ?

My advise is don't use those additives at all then you won't have a problem. If you want to remedy a problem go gently by simply using a synthetic oil.


+1
 
Just be careful, I tried to clean our old z24 with 190k by using pennzoil platinum & mmo. It cleaned too much too fast & clogged the oil pickup & starved the top half of the engine of oil & it blew the motor. I should have pulled the pan after the 1st oil change & checked the pickup but I didn't know then what I do now.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Artem
I think it always is a case by case scenario.

There are plenty of used cars with 150k +/- that have spotless engines and do not NEED an instant cleaning regimen right away.

If an engine hasn't been maintained properly and is in need of cleaning... again it's a case by case thing. Car A might need a piston soak where as car B just needs a light dose of MMO for example and a few OCIs with a high mileage oil to clean up some minor varnish from the valvetrain.
21.gif


I personally prefer to use a cleaning method that is completely safe to do during each and every oil change.

Take Amsoil's Engine Flush. Pour in the whole bottle before an oil change, idle for 10-15 mins and drain the oil. You can do this during EVERY oil change to help remove any leftover stuff that might have accumulated during the oil run or leftover stuff from negligent maintenance.

I don't do sea foam in the intake because it's better to remove the manifold and clean it during routine maintenance, light a timing belt service, valve adjustment, etc where many parts are removed. Same with the throttle body cleaning.

I use either Redline or Amsoil's Pi fuel system additives but again, not often because i use quality fuels from name brand gas stations like Shell, which have cleaners in the fuel... "Supposedly"

It's also best to remove a valve cover or two to examine the engine and perhaps keep doing cleaning cycles until desired cleanliness occurs. (again, with products that are not too aggressive and safe to use constantly, not just once)

Time is also an issue. A 5 year old engine with 150,000 miles of neglect will not suffer from aggressive cleaning as much as a 15 year old engine with 150,000 miles would. Engine seals aren't as fragile in a newer engine as much as when those rubber seals are 15 years old. Makes sense right?

I've been using the Amsoil Engine Flush during every oil change in my 98 Camry V6 with 212,000 miles for about 3 or 4 oil changes now (5k OCIs)

I took pictures of the valvetrain before i started using Amsoil and will pull the front valve cover to attain accurate after pictures in the next few weeks. Comparing before and after results will be rather easy i think, if any noticeable difference will even be there.

here's what i was working with about 20,000 miles ago

IMG_1042.jpg


This is a car that i've had since new in 97 and has had 3-5k mile oil changes with Mobil 1 since new. It is a known sludger engine so i'm not surprised by the minor varnish build up in certain areas of the head.

Like i said, before and after pics coming soon and we'll see what 4 doses of Amsoil Engine Flush and running Amsoil synthetic oil with 5k OCIs has achieved.
thumbsup2.gif


Just my
49.gif



4 Doses of Amsoil engine flush? Over how long a period of time? I'd love to see the after shots, 4 treatments should have that engine spotless!


Correction; i went back and looked over my posts / paperwork on the car and i pulled the valve cover to take pics @ 200k. So far it has received 2x Amsoil Engine Flush treatments 5,000 miles apart. (did a cleaning cycle @ 202k ran the usual 5k mile OCI and did another flush. I'm now a week or two away from an OC and will do a third Flush cycle at which point i'll remove the valve cover again to examine the internals.)

So that's 3 Amsoil Flush cycles in about 8 months and 15,000 miles worth. Let's see... I'll make a thread about it once the pics are ready.

Sorry to thread jack.
32.gif
 
Originally Posted By: shpankey
Just be careful, I tried to clean our old z24 with 190k by using pennzoil platinum & mmo. It cleaned too much too fast & clogged the oil pickup & starved the top half of the engine of oil & it blew the motor. I should have pulled the pan after the 1st oil change & checked the pickup but I didn't know then what I do now.


^The sludge monster difference/variable...don't take a chance with a known sludger. Confirm by removing Valve covers. If the top-end looks questionable, pull the pan before cleaning up with chemicals.

That's probably the greatest risk that's being beaten around here.
 
It's amazing actually,all the years I've changed oil,owned many different vehicles,not one time,have I ever needed to add "extra cleaners" to an motor oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Correction; i went back and looked over my posts / paperwork on the car and i pulled the valve cover to take pics @ 200k. So far it has received 2x Amsoil Engine Flush treatments 5,000 miles apart. (did a cleaning cycle @ 202k ran the usual 5k mile OCI and did another flush. I'm now a week or two away from an OC and will do a third Flush cycle at which point i'll remove the valve cover again to examine the internals.)

So that's 3 Amsoil Flush cycles in about 8 months and 15,000 miles worth. Let's see... I'll make a thread about it once the pics are ready.

Sorry to thread jack.
32.gif



Dude, when you're coming through Atlanta next time, let me know: I need to borrow your ability to use a torque wrench/feel for removing these finicky valve cover bolts on my '92, I want to get some pics of my valve train area too!
banana2.gif


grin2.gif
 
I've had the opportunity over the years to work on more than a few dirty engines, some neglected, some unkown history. Still others were properly maintained but short hops took their toll.

Some engines need cleaning no matter how they were cared for, others don't. Common sense and proper use of cleaning products is advised. If I run across an engine that has a nosiy lifter before, I start puling it apart it gets a dose of MMO. I've saved a few friends a lot of money over the years doing just that. Opinions vary.
 
Originally Posted By: DragRace
It's amazing actually,all the years I've changed oil,owned many different vehicles,not one time,have I ever needed to add "extra cleaners" to an motor oil.


I think you're alluding to an OCD type of behavior, throw in the cleaner when it's not needed, the point is: If your engine is clean something like Kreen or MMO won't hurt it or cause it to break when used properly.

PS: I would not use Sea Foam ingested into the engine...do a piston soak instead for that type of use. Safer, can manually crank and not risk hydrolocking the engine.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DragRace
It's amazing actually,all the years I've changed oil,owned many different vehicles,not one time,have I ever needed to add "extra cleaners" to an motor oil.

Same here on the vehicles I have maintained that were in good shape when I bought them... Over the years I've pulled the pan on a few "fresh meat" suspects, but that hasn't happened in the last 25 years or so... Most of my drivers since the late eighties have been low mileage or had a known history, no snake oil needed or used, even at 150K mi plus... If it was something I was reselling no way I'm using any cleaners that may clog a oil passage, learned a long time ago, let sleeping dogs lie...
 
Since you like Seafoam, I have to say that of all the products that we sell absolutely nothing gets better customer feedback than Seafoam.

I'm not a big fan of seafoam through the brake booster hose. Much better is to buy the spray can with the 'special tube' slip it inside the large hose from the Mass Air Flow Meter to the throttle body. Start the car and spray on a slow steady cycle. Finally spray more to the point of stall and let soak.

The tube is kept about 1/2 inch in front of the throttle plate.

As Iv'e posted before, Seafoam does not loosen 'big chunks' it dissolves the sludge and the filter will catch it.
 
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