what exactly is the purpose of high mileage oils?

[gmchevroletruck]

In the case of high mileage oils, what is the purpose, and the difference? Is the school of thought behind this: (?) add more anti-wear additives, "seal conditioners" (which always sounds like a bunch of b.s. to me), and detergents?

Whatever the case may be, I would think that whatever formula a "high mileage oil" is, if it is made to serve "high mileage" engines better, which are more likely to have sludge, more likely to have wear which requires heavy anti-wear agents...wouldn't that just make them better oils, period? Including use in a brand new car (once properly broken in)?

Or, is there generally an accepted theory at work here, which refers to "additive build-up", i.e., too much zinc, too much (insert additive here). Can anyone shed some light on what the real deal is here?

 

[Vilan]

Several folks here have reported that using high-mileage oils has stopped slow oil leaks in their engine. A search would probably reveal them.

And yes, they are more robust in some senses and would be perfectly fine to use in a new engine as well. Whether they would be worth the extra expense is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[SZR48207]

Valvoline MaxLife stopped or reduced the rear main seal leak on my truck. This is the only oil I use now.

 

[Gary Allan]

Seal conditioners/swelling agents ..higher visc ..

A whole market wrapped around them for cars over 75k miles ..their target market. 75k isn't high mileage anymore. 150k isn't high mileage if it's over 10 years. It may compensate for some material or design issues that your particular engine may have.

I think the onset of need for such oil requires reevaluation.

 

[ponderosaTX]

The new ILSAC GF-5 standard, which is slated to become effective in Fall 2010, mandates the use of seal conditioners to prevent seal shrinkage and embrittlement. ILSAC GF-4 does not. See www.gf-5.com and www.gf-5.com/the_story/ingredients/ for more information.

You can buy seal conditioner as a separate additive. I recommend Bar's Oil Stop Leak, which was developed in consultation with Lubrizol, a leading oil additive manufacturer and the host of the gf-5.com web site.

 

[aznboi24]

My mom's 200k+ camry stopped smoking on cold starts after a couple of "high mileage" oil changes. Thats proof enough for me.

 

[gmchevroletruck]

Is there anything in these oils that could possibly be "overkill" in terms of additive amounts, and therefore "build-up" inside a motor?

 

[fraso]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Seal conditioners/swelling agents ..higher visc ..

A whole market wrapped around them for cars over 75k miles ..their target market. 75k isn't high mileage anymore. 150k isn't high mileage if it's over 10 years. It may compensate for some material or design issues that your particular engine may have.

I think the onset of need for such oil requires reevaluation.


Do the seal conditioners in HM oils cause the seals to swell or do they just soften them? If the seal conditioners in HM oils cause swelling, what effect would they have on unworn seals? I expect that unnecessary swelling would cause good seals to wear prematurely.

I agree that reaching 75,000 miles isn't a valid reason to switch to HM oil but it makes a lot of sense from a marketing point of view.

 

[strombony]

A long time ago, Johnny told me the following:
**************************************************************
When a seal goes bad nothing is going to stop it from leaking, except replacing it.

HM oil originally came out because of the valve stem seals on V-8 GM motors. They use to get hard and leak. The small amount of ester in the HM oils would help swell the valve stem seals. They do not use the same material in valve stem seals anymore. If a car has worn rings, just use a higher viscosity oil (instead of 5W30, use 10W30 or 10W40). And, HM oils have never stopped gasket leaks.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Seal conditioners/swelling agents ..higher visc ..

A whole market wrapped around them for cars over 75k miles ..their target market. 75k isn't high mileage anymore. 150k isn't high mileage if it's over 10 years. It may compensate for some material or design issues that your particular engine may have.

I think the onset of need for such oil requires reevaluation.
+1 I'm with you Gary.

Most times I find the users of such an oil, are trying to squeeze more miles out of an engine they haven't cared for properly and has started to consume/leak oil due to over extended OCI's or manufacturer defects/design flaws. Not the BITOG-er's but regular joe-consumers are the ones that would rather try to fix problems later with "miracle oil" that prevent them in the first place with a proper maintenance regiment...

It does have some leak stopping, consumption reduction agents but these don't work extremely well in a lot of applications and usually it just parts a consumer from his/her extra cash and doesn't do much else.

It's more marketing than anything else...

 

[strombony]

Here's another piece of info Johnny provided me in regard to HM
oil when have a discussion with him...
***************************************************************
When HM oils first came out, most conventional oils were made from Group I base stocks. The sulphur content in Group I would over a period of time cake up on seals and cause them to harden. They put some ester (a very small amount) in the HM oils to help soften the seals and to swell them. Since the use of Group II base stocks the sulphur content has been reduced or in the case of the Group II+ base stocks used in Pennzoil, it has been eliminated all together. Modern day engine oils do not have the same effect on seals, plus seals are made from better materials than 20 years ago.
**************************************************************

Based on this, there are some valid reasons to use them depending on the age of your veh (Model year), but from what we read here, modern oils do not have the same adverse effect on engine seals as the old ones use to. Unless of course, you are over-extended your OCI.

 

[FrankN4]

If you look, for example, at Mobil 1 10w30, and Mobil 1 10w30 High Mileage, there is a world of difference.

M1 10w30 has a 100C of 10, HTHS of 3.09, and 800 ZDDP.
M1 10w30 HM has a 100C of 11.79, HTHS of 3.66, an 1000 ZDDP.

The HM also has more moly, boron, and antioxidants. It is an overall heavier duty oil.

Valvoline 10w30 Synpowr and Valvoline 10w30 Synthetic MaxLife are also very different oils.

I am not convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they have any more seal conditioners but they sure have more seal conditioner advertisement.

The HM oils seem to be a way to get a more robust oil, per grade, on the market. They do not have to meet SM or GF-4.

Also, most make use of 75,000 as the time you should convert to a HM oil. Very good commercial/advertising technique since something like 75% of all cars on American roads have 75,000, or more miles. They are advertising, reaching out to the largest market.

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: FrankN4

M1 10w30 HM has a 100C of 11.79, HTHS of 3.66, an 1000 ZDDP.


Valvoline 10w30 Synpowr and Valvoline 10w30 Synthetic MaxLife are also very different oils.


how much zinc in hm maxlife?

 

[FrankN4]

MaxLife blend and full synthetic have 800 ZDDP, but, they add in 300 moly. They also use the newer high endurance ZDDP.

Synpower 10w30 synthetic has 100C of 10.5, HTHS of 3.0, 800 ZDDP, no moly.

MaxLife 10w30 synthetic has a 100C of 11.7, blend has a 100C of 11.5, synthetic has HTHS of 3.6, blend has a HTHS of 3.3. Both have 800 ZDDP and both have 300 moly. Both have 1910 calcium and 490 sodium.

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: FrankN4
MaxLife blend and full synthetic have 800 ZDDP, but, they add in 300 moly. They also use the newer high endurance ZDDP.

Synpower 10w30 synthetic has 100C of 10.5, HTHS of 3.0, 800 ZDDP, no moly.

MaxLife 10w30 synthetic has a 100C of 11.7, blend has a 100C of 11.5, synthetic has HTHS of 3.6, blend has a HTHS of 3.3. Both have 800 ZDDP and both have 300 moly. Both have 1910 calcium and 490 sodium.

thanks!