What do you think? (computer question)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
3,566
On my main system, I have an ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z motherboard. This board has two SATA III and four SATA II ports off of the Intel Z68 chipset.

Connected to one of the SATA III ports I have a 120 GB Intel 520 Cherryville SSD. On the other SATA III port I have a 1 TB WD Black drive. My SSD houses the main OS install and most applications. The WD Black has my Steam directory, games, music, files, etc. I still have some space left but am coming close to having 70-80GB free and would like to increase my available storage capacity. I would like to add another 1 TB WD Black and run then in RAID 0 (not too worried about redundancy as I always backup to a Drobo with 4x1 TB).

My only dilemma is that I know the WD Blacks are SATA III and I'm curious if running both drives on the SATA II controller would still be relatively quick. What do you think? Or do you think I'd have better performance with a 2-3 TB drive on the remaining SATA III port?

Thanks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Agree with the others. SSD is when you can start to take advantage of the faster controllers. I believe regular HDD's won't even max out SATA1 bandwidth from what I remember reading.
 
Thanks guys. I guess I'll be ordering another black and raid them.
 
RAID0 doesn't provide any real benefits for normal computer use. The only reason I run RAID arrays is because with music/audio recording, editing, and such, there is a need for both large amounts of storage as well as high IOPS.

I would actually recommend the WD Blue 1TB WD10EZEX. It is faster than the Blacks, using a single platter it hits 200MB/s sequential on the outer parts of the disk.
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan
RAID0 doesn't provide any real benefits for normal computer use. The only reason I run RAID arrays is because with music/audio recording, editing, and such, there is a need for both large amounts of storage as well as high IOPS.

I would actually recommend the WD Blue 1TB WD10EZEX. It is faster than the Blacks, using a single platter it hits 200MB/s sequential on the outer parts of the disk.


RAID 0 (with the acknowledged caveat that you have doubled your chances of data loss due to drive failure) can have advantages in "normal" computer use, assuming that use involves the playing of games. The increase read/write speed has a noticeable effect on load times for levels/maps.....etc.

My personal rig has a RAID 10 setup in it currently. Recovering from failed drives has been flawless (and I've had a few... I had bought Seagate 1TB drives when I first put it together. That was a mistake.) no data loss and reasonable rebuild times. And the performance is certainly better than a single disk. The array is comprised of WD Blue's mostly at this point and I am waiting for the last Seagate to fail.
 
True, it does decrease load times, but the amount of time shaved is highly variable. I have seen anywhere from as much as a 45 percent decrease to as little as zero.
Also, RAID0 is fine if it's for unimportant data, but I always recommend a consistent and significant backup regiment be in place.
With the obsolescence of RAID5 and soon 6, I have found nested RAID (10) to be the "ultimate" in terms of performance and acceptable data loss prevention.

Just remember, if the data doesn't exist in more than two places, it doesn't exist.

Also, when you setup your array, DO NOT use a 3rd party on board drive controller, use the Intel SATA2 ports! Otherwise, transferring motherboards is guaranteed to break your array.
I also would not run anything more than a simple 2-drive array off of the on board Intel controller. RAID cards exist for a reason, and while I was hesitant to spend the money for a while, now I realize just how powerful of a tool they are, and have 6 running in my house (main PC, 2nd PC, media center PC, home server, NAS).

Be sure to disable all drive power saving modes, as keeping the drives spinning constantly when the PC is on not only dramatically increases life expectancy, it also drastically reduces the chance of a drive timing out and breaking the array (trashing the data).
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Also, RAID0 is fine if it's for unimportant data, but I always recommend a consistent and significant backup regiment be in place.


+1 I used to use a RAID 0 array to run a recording studio: I would use the 2-disk array to record and play back, mix, etc. several tracks of 96KHz, 24-bit audio; but as soon as the session had ended all of that data was (comparatively slowly) backed up to more reliable media.
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan
True, it does decrease load times, but the amount of time shaved is highly variable. I have seen anywhere from as much as a 45 percent decrease to as little as zero.


Yes, that variability comes from the size of data it is loading and how it is being accessed. If it is able to pull the whole map into RAM, it will max out the read speed, ergo, the performance increase will be very noticeable in this case. Swapping at this point would of course be counter productive. That being said, gaming rigs tend to have lots of RAM, so as I mentioned, usually, with things like games, and large data chunks being pulled from the drives, a stripe set will yield a very noticeable decrease in load times.

Quote:
Also, RAID0 is fine if it's for unimportant data, but I always recommend a consistent and significant backup regiment be in place.
With the obsolescence of RAID5 and soon 6, I have found nested RAID (10) to be the "ultimate" in terms of performance and acceptable data loss prevention.


Data being unimportant or backed up regularly doesn't change the inconvenient aspect of it though! A failed RAID 0 array is a PITA whether what is on it is important or not
wink.gif


I'm with you on RAID 10, as I mentioned, that's what I use on my own systems.

I'm curious as to why you think RAID 5 and RAID 6 are being obsoleted? I still see them used regularly on Enterprise hardware with a couple hot spares. I know many in *NIX circles push software redundancy over hardware, but I don't see as much of that leveraged as the hype would have one believe.

Quote:
Just remember, if the data doesn't exist in more than two places, it doesn't exist.


Yup.

Quote:
Also, when you setup your array, DO NOT use a 3rd party on board drive controller, use the Intel SATA2 ports! Otherwise, transferring motherboards is guaranteed to break your array.


Oh, you mean like the old HighPoint controllers or the JMicron controllers or the *insert name of junky 3rd party on-board chipset manufacturer here*.... Yeah the arrays created on them are usually not only guaranteed to not be transferrable to any future hardware, but the controllers themselves often have [censored] flaky driver support, lack of firmware update from the manufacturers (who only produce updates for the controller when sold on a stand-alone card) and poor support from the bloody OEM who manufactured the board to boot! And they are also usually much slower than the Intel ones.

So yeah, I agree with that.

Quote:
I also would not run anything more than a simple 2-drive array off of the on board Intel controller.


I've had no issues with 4 and 6 drive arrays (always relatively simple arrays like RAID 1, RAID 0 or RAID 10) on MANY boards with the Intel (software) RAID controller. Why do you say this?

Quote:
RAID cards exist for a reason, and while I was hesitant to spend the money for a while, now I realize just how powerful of a tool they are, and have 6 running in my house (main PC, 2nd PC, media center PC, home server, NAS).


Of course, they've been the primary basis of RAID arrays for as long as the technology existed. I cut my teeth on Adaptec SCSI controllers "back in the day" where you were setting the drive ID's with jumpers. Had a number of Compaq SmartRAID controllers.....etc. Used to love those 4ft long SCSI cables, LOL!!!

SAS of course is the latest incarnation, but most people are just using SATA due to the price of SAS hardware. Even in lower-tier enterprise and SMB operations, you'll sometimes see a mix of SATA and SAS.

Quote:
Be sure to disable all drive power saving modes, as keeping the drives spinning constantly when the PC is on not only dramatically increases life expectancy, it also drastically reduces the chance of a drive timing out and breaking the array (trashing the data).


Yes. And of course when you are using a hardware-based controller card, power management for that stuff is controlled by the card, not the OS (thankfully), which often means that drive power-downs and the like are disabled by default and may not even be an option.
 
The reason against parity RAID is that with 3TB disks or larger, the shear number of LBA's present means that statistically, during a rebuild you are more likely to encounter an URE than not.
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan
The reason against parity RAID is that with 3TB disks or larger, the shear number of LBA's present means that statistically, during a rebuild you are more likely to encounter an URE than not.


Yes, I've heard that argument before. But usually these types of arrays are used with high speed SAS disks (15K) like WD's Xe series, which are only available in quantities up to 900GB at this point anyway.

This was one of the arguments I was speaking of when I mentioned the software RAID folks BTW
wink.gif


This concern is more aptly directed at those leveraging commodity hardware arrays built using high-capacity slower spindle speed hardware. Not really a problem in the Enterprise where redundancy and failure models are part of the top-level design process and factored into the architecture of the SAN or SAN's.

Basically, depending on what you are storing, how it is being stored, what it is being stored on and how it is being accessed determines what level of RAID (among other things) is appropriate. Knowing the limitations of the technology being utilized and what makes sense with respect to those determining factors are part of the planning process and does not mean that we simply shrug off a technology that makes sense under certain conditions because it doesn't work well or provide adequate redundancy under others.

I think we'll be seeing RAID 5 and 6 hanging around for a while yet
smile.gif
 
Hmm... so you guys think it might be a wiser investment to get two WD Blue's? I guess I was brainwashed into thinking that the highest level would be the quickest! Their advertising sure makes your believe it!

My one WD Black that I was planning on using (with another Black) was just sent back to WD as it had some back sectors. It's only a year old.

Every weekend I backup to my Drobo. I'm not too concerned with data loss. Luckily, in conjunction with my weekly backup, I was able to pull all of the data off of my Black and migrate it to a temporary drive. In the interim, I'm using a 1TB Hitachi. Talk about noisy and slow, but it gets the job done.

Also, yes, I do play games so I feel that a RAID array with peppy drives would be a good addition. I love my SSD for speeds but price wise, they still are not practical for me to buy a big one. I have 16GB of RAM on this rig with a SandyBridge.
 
Well I ordered two of the WD Blue 1 TB WD10EZEX.

I ordered them from Amazon as I have Prime (love two-day shipping). Each drive was $59.67, so x2, $119.34. For just one more WD Black to match my drive (identically) would've been about $100.

WD makes or made two Black 1 TB drives, one (identical to my current one) is a regular 512 byte sector. The other one (which is coincidentally $10 cheaper) is AF. Since I sent the current WD Black that I own back to WD for RMA, I wasn't sure which one I'd get. RAID on an AF and non-AF drive probably would be OK, but I'd rather have matched drives.

For the $20 or so more, I felt it was worth it to go this route. Plus I should see some decent performance out of this setup and will now have a refurbished WD 1 TB Black and aging 1 TB Hitachi for replacement drives on my Drobo when (if ever) needed.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: nleksan
RAID0 doesn't provide any real benefits for normal computer use. The only reason I run RAID arrays is because with music/audio recording, editing, and such, there is a need for both large amounts of storage as well as high IOPS.

I would actually recommend the WD Blue 1TB WD10EZEX. It is faster than the Blacks, using a single platter it hits 200MB/s sequential on the outer parts of the disk.


RAID 0 (with the acknowledged caveat that you have doubled your chances of data loss due to drive failure) can have advantages in "normal" computer use, assuming that use involves the playing of games. The increase read/write speed has a noticeable effect on load times for levels/maps.....etc.

My personal rig has a RAID 10 setup in it currently. Recovering from failed drives has been flawless (and I've had a few... I had bought Seagate 1TB drives when I first put it together. That was a mistake.) no data loss and reasonable rebuild times. And the performance is certainly better than a single disk. The array is comprised of WD Blue's mostly at this point and I am waiting for the last Seagate to fail.


Yes, RAID 0 increase continuous read write throughput but have a slight seek penalty. So if you short stroke the drives you drives by creating partitions after you RAID 0, and use only 1 of the 2 partitions at a time, you can make it faster. This is what I'm using in my personal rig (RAID 0 and split into 2 partitions, with the slower one for data not regularly used).

But if you will be using 2 sets of data (i.e. OS swap file and application, or application and data) on a regular basis, maybe 2 drives running independently for this purpose will be faster.
 
I can reach sustained read/write speeds of 380-395MB/sec w two of my WD10EZEX in RAID0, you willl ove them! IMHO, there is not a better drive for the money in terms of all around performance, in fact in is one of thefastest drives aavailable, yet cooler and quieter than the old-hat blacks.
 
Wow! That's not too shabby at all!

I think they will be a fine addition to my SSD and really decrease the game load times.

...meanwhile, my 1 TB Hitachi sounds like a food processor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top