VW Atlas Oil Change

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Atlanta, GA USA
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by jfrankh
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Mine is a 2019 and in the book and under the hood it says 502.00. My book says that in an emergency you can use 504.00. The parts guy at the dealership said specifically Castrol Edge 0W-30 502.00 and I gave him my VIN #. I don't know why I would trust the Mobil 1 oil selector over the dealership because yes the Mobil 1 site says to use there 0W-30 that is 504.00 approved. I never imagined this post would blow up like this. Who knew it would be this much ambiguity with oil! LOL The dealership did confirm what was mentioned earlier in this post that VW was dropping Castrol and moving to Mobil so mabye Mobil doesn't have a 0W-30 that is 502 approved and thats why they push people to the other?
OK, can you explain me logic between going for 0W30 instead let's say 5W30? Again, grade is irrelevant as long as it is VW 502.00 approved. Now, in your case it says in emergency VW504.00/507.00 because at that time when VW was printing manuals, the US had high sulfur gas, and that specification is not very good in direct injection engines and fuel with high sulfur (numerous threads around that, I will not repeat it). Now, the US has ULSG, but still VW 502.00 is OK as that engine was developed around that specification. Also, stop blindly believing dealerships. Hyundai literally recommends specifications that do not exists for their engines. Go to local Wal Mart, get Castrol 0W40, call it a day, enjoy the ride.
I have no logic for either oil over another. Thats why I'm here. And I'm not blindly believing dealships, I was just expressing what they said. I'm not trying to argue about whats better or worse. I am just gathering information and enjoying learning about a topic that I did not know much about, while trying to find what the best oil is to put in my vehicle. Tough crowd.
Sure, I think argument about which oil is better is like arguing politics. However, what I am several other are trying to convey is that you should fallow approval VW502.00, or VW504.00/507.00 if you want. Take into consideration that VW considers VW504.00 backward compatible. However, you really do not need in that engine anything but oil that meets VW502.00 that also has MB229.5 approval. Castrol 0W40, Mobil1 0W40 FS are both readily available, excellent oils. There are a lot of misinformation here. That engine never had any meaningful change except that for Atlas compression ratio was lowered and some other stuff not related to oil in order to be able to run regular gas. It is same engine as the one that was introduced to the US market in first generation Audi Q7 in 2007. Only difference is updated timing chain tensioner as of mid 2008.
Ok..just so I'm clear, since there were no engine changes, how do you explain early 2018 Atlas with the VR6 (502.00) having one required grade and certification change to late 2019s which required now 504.00W 0w-30? if the argument was due to fuel economy, that can't be right as the EPA rating hasn't changed since launch. And the low-sulfur gasoline was available at launch as well. Oh, and 504.00 has been available for years?
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
@TiGeo. Interesting point. And your right, the 504.00 are typically 30wt although they could pass as a lightweight 40wt. Regarding the Golf R..yeah, I thought that interesting too...high output performance model. .but doesn't the Budack B-cycle 2.0T required Lower viscosity 0w-20 due to design?
VW504.00/507.00 are ONLY W30 oils. They cannot pass as lightweight W40 oils as such thing does not exists. At 12.5cst oil is W40, and VW in their specification does not recognize language "lightweight". VW set requirements to get approval. They are very straightforward and ONLY oils with minimum HTHS of 3.5cp and cst up to 12.5 can get that approval.
Help me understand? Take for example Mobil ESP 504.00 0w-30 HTHS 2 3.5 and 12.0 CST @ 100c Vs. Mobil 1 0w-40 FS 502.00 HTHS 3.6 and 12.9 CST @ 100CST Splitting hairs, and I'd say the 0w-30 is pretty much the same as the 0w-40...From a viscosity standpoint. Not talking about 502.00 being over 12.5 so not focusing on the Certification.. But I could be wrong.
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
@TiGeo. Interesting point. And your right, the 504.00 are typically 30wt although they could pass as a lightweight 40wt. Regarding the Golf R..yeah, I thought that interesting too...high output performance model. .but doesn't the Budack B-cycle 2.0T required Lower viscosity 0w-20 due to design?
VW504.00/507.00 are ONLY W30 oils. They cannot pass as lightweight W40 oils as such thing does not exists. At 12.5cst oil is W40, and VW in their specification does not recognize language "lightweight". VW set requirements to get approval. They are very straightforward and ONLY oils with minimum HTHS of 3.5cp and cst up to 12.5 can get that approval.
Help me understand? Take for example Mobil ESP 504.00 0w-30 HTHS 2 3.5 and 12.0 CST @ 100c Vs. Mobil 1 0w-40 FS 502.00 HTHS 3.6 and 12.9 CST @ 100CST Splitting hairs, and I'd say the 0w-30 is pretty much the same as the 0w-40...From a viscosity standpoint. Not talking about 502.00 being over 12.5 so not focusing on the Certification.. But I could be wrong.
40w oils the min viscosity @100C is 12.5cst. 30w oils the min viscosity @100C is 9.3cst. This is where the "Heavy 30 and Light 40" came from with regards to Euro oils. 30w A3/B4/C3 were always near or just over 12cst. Also M1 0w40 was known to temporarily fall out of grade (drop under 12.5cst) during its service interval. Add packs between A3/B4 (502) differ from C3 (504)
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
This is my window sticker. If the VR6 is the same, across years and the 2018/19/20 are all the same, then 502.00 should be still recommended since the 0w-30 is not energy conserving?? [Linked Image]
May be confused here - the 502 oils are typically 40W (a few 30s) and the 504s are typically 30W so they are a little lighter and should be a little more fuel efficient and that's what I think they made this change, not b/c there is a difference in the VR between the 3 model years that warrants a different spec. If you want a real [censored], check out the Golf R oil requirements/posts.
VW 504.00/507.00 are ONLY W30 oils!
Did my wording Typically throw you off? I try not to minimize the use concrete wording as there is always room for error in life. ALWAYS! There fixed! Lol
The "typically" is not what threw him off. It's the 30W, in multigrade oil labeling, such as 5W30, you are suggesting that cold temp viscosity is a 30, which in accordance to SAE J300, does not exist.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
@TiGeo. Interesting point. And your right, the 504.00 are typically 30wt although they could pass as a lightweight 40wt. Regarding the Golf R..yeah, I thought that interesting too...high output performance model. .but doesn't the Budack B-cycle 2.0T required Lower viscosity 0w-20 due to design?
VW504.00/507.00 are ONLY W30 oils. They cannot pass as lightweight W40 oils as such thing does not exists. At 12.5cst oil is W40, and VW in their specification does not recognize language "lightweight". VW set requirements to get approval. They are very straightforward and ONLY oils with minimum HTHS of 3.5cp and cst up to 12.5 can get that approval.
Help me understand? Take for example Mobil ESP 504.00 0w-30 HTHS 2 3.5 and 12.0 CST @ 100c Vs. Mobil 1 0w-40 FS 502.00 HTHS 3.6 and 12.9 CST @ 100CST Splitting hairs, and I'd say the 0w-30 is pretty much the same as the 0w-40...From a viscosity standpoint. Not talking about 502.00 being over 12.5 so not focusing on the Certification.. But I could be wrong.
40w oils the min viscosity @100C is 12.5cst. 30w oils the min viscosity @100C is 9.3cst. This is where the "Heavy 30 and Light 40" came from with regards to Euro oils. 30w A3/B4/C3 were always near or just over 12cst. Also M1 0w40 was known to temporarily fall out of grade (drop under 12.5cst) during its service interval. Add packs between A3/B4 (502) differ from C3 (504)
the max viscosity @100C for 30 is <12.5 cSt there is no overlap between 30 and 40 viscosity @100C (according to SAE J300), that one can make a generalization that a high 30 can be considered as a low 40. A regular GTI 2.0TSI also calls for 508.00, supposedly the oil pump was changed for it, but 508.00/509.00 is all for the emissions and that few percentage bump in fuel economy that 508/509 claims
 
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Richmond, VA area
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
This is my window sticker. If the VR6 is the same, across years and the 2018/19/20 are all the same, then 502.00 should be still recommended since the 0w-30 is not energy conserving?? [Linked Image]
May be confused here - the 502 oils are typically 40W (a few 30s) and the 504s are typically 30W so they are a little lighter and should be a little more fuel efficient and that's what I think they made this change, not b/c there is a difference in the VR between the 3 model years that warrants a different spec. If you want a real [censored], check out the Golf R oil requirements/posts.
VW 504.00/507.00 are ONLY W30 oils!
Right as usual in these discussions - my bad on poor choice of words there, anytime I write stuff about VW oils, I use "typically" to indicate "5W30" as there are some 0Ws but yes, all 504s are 30W so I goofed that.
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Ok..just so I'm clear, since there were no engine changes, how do you explain early 2018 Atlas with the VR6 (502.00) having one required grade and certification change to late 2019s which required now 504.00W 0w-30? if the argument was due to fuel economy, that can't be right as the EPA rating hasn't changed since launch. And the low-sulfur gasoline was available at launch as well. Oh, and 504.00 has been available for years?
Because the fuel changed The Atlas was not the only vehicle that had the oil spec updated for 2018 or 2019. Lots of VAG products did, including the Golf R.
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Ok..just so I'm clear, since there were no engine changes, how do you explain early 2018 Atlas with the VR6 (502.00) having one required grade and certification change to late 2019s which required now 504.00W 0w-30? if the argument was due to fuel economy, that can't be right as the EPA rating hasn't changed since launch. And the low-sulfur gasoline was available at launch as well. Oh, and 504.00 has been available for years?
And to look at it as though 502 00 has "one required grade" is not correct. A VW has a required approval(s) but the grade cannot be required in this instance since the approval lists several grades. As noted too, the sticker with 0W-30 and 504 00 is whack since the 504 00 approval specification lists only 5W-30 but clearly that isn't what's widely available or even printed on that sticker. Again what is important is HTHS since that has the most direct relationship to engine design, operating conditions and fuel economy. Honestly with approvals such as those from VW, BMW and Mercedes-Benz they should stop listing a grade. Somewhere on here someone posted information from a newer Mercedes-Benz owner's manual where they did just that. It makes perfect sense considering what those approvals require. Just let the owner pick a winter rating that is appropriate for their expected operating conditions and forget the rest. Besides, on here you constantly see people posting stuff like "I just got a new VW (or BMW or Mercedes or...) and what oil should I use? Should I use a 5W-30 or a 5W-40 and should I buy a German oil?", often accompanied by the notion that "I heard a 0 weight oil is too thin." This misses the most important aspect of the oil (the approval) and focuses on the two least important indicators.
 
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
the max viscosity @100C for 30 is <12.5 cSt there is no overlap between 30 and 40 viscosity @100C (according to SAE J300), that one can make a generalization that a high 30 can be considered as a low 40. A regular GTI 2.0TSI also calls for 508.00, supposedly the oil pump was changed for it, but 508.00/509.00 is all for the emissions and that few percentage bump in fuel economy that 508/509 claims
Agree. Figured that was self-explanatory as in the example 504 M1 5w30 ESP is as 12.0 cst which is a "heavy 30" and the M1 FS 0w40 at 12.9 is a "light 40". I bet it's not possible for find a 30 weight A3/B4 or C3 oil at less than 12cst.
 
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Richmond, VA area
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Ok..just so I'm clear, since there were no engine changes, how do you explain early 2018 Atlas with the VR6 (502.00) having one required grade and certification change to late 2019s which required now 504.00W 0w-30? if the argument was due to fuel economy, that can't be right as the EPA rating hasn't changed since launch. And the low-sulfur gasoline was available at launch as well. Oh, and 504.00 has been available for years?
And to look at it as though 502 00 has "one required grade" is not correct. A VW has a required approval(s) but the grade cannot be required in this instance since the approval lists several grades. As noted too, the sticker with 0W-30 and 504 00 is whack since the 504 00 approval specification lists only 5W-30 but clearly that isn't what's widely available or even printed on that sticker. Again what is important is HTHS since that has the most direct relationship to engine design, operating conditions and fuel economy. Honestly with approvals such as those from VW, BMW and Mercedes-Benz they should stop listing a grade. Somewhere on here someone posted information from a newer Mercedes-Benz owner's manual where they did just that. It makes perfect sense considering what those approvals require. Just let the owner pick a winter rating that is appropriate for their expected operating conditions and forget the rest. Besides, on here you constantly see people posting stuff like "I just got a new VW (or BMW or Mercedes or...) and what oil should I use? Should I use a 5W-30 or a 5W-40 and should I buy a German oil?", often accompanied by the notion that "I heard a 0 weight oil is too thin." This misses the most important aspect of the oil (the approval) and focuses on the two least important indicators.
There are some 0W30 504 oils so that is not accurate. I do agree with the rest of your post - VW should just list approval and be done with it, so much easier. The confusion stats when the approval AND grade gets listed. Let folks choose their viscosity based on their climate - I remember when cars' owner's manuals had a table with climate and grade listed. List of oils/VW approvals: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n2QzU-ZxltJ5xBcwgIxxmjaxqWSKVrGC
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Ok..just so I'm clear, since there were no engine changes, how do you explain early 2018 Atlas with the VR6 (502.00) having one required grade and certification change to late 2019s which required now 504.00W 0w-30? if the argument was due to fuel economy, that can't be right as the EPA rating hasn't changed since launch. And the low-sulfur gasoline was available at launch as well. Oh, and 504.00 has been available for years?
Because the fuel changed The Atlas was not the only vehicle that had the oil spec updated for 2018 or 2019. Lots of VAG products did, including the Golf R.
Ok. Got it. Makes sense. Thanks
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
the max viscosity @100C for 30 is <12.5 cSt there is no overlap between 30 and 40 viscosity @100C (according to SAE J300), that one can make a generalization that a high 30 can be considered as a low 40. A regular GTI 2.0TSI also calls for 508.00, supposedly the oil pump was changed for it, but 508.00/509.00 is all for the emissions and that few percentage bump in fuel economy that 508/509 claims
Agree. Figured that was self-explanatory as in the example 504 M1 5w30 ESP is as 12.0 cst which is a "heavy 30" and the M1 FS 0w40 at 12.9 is a "light 40". I bet it's not possible for find a 30 weight A3/B4 or C3 oil at less than 12cst.
I think This came about when I stated 502.00 0w-40 is just like 0w-30 504.00 and EDYVW chimed in. But you confirm my point, there's no need for a FS 0W-40 502.00 when the 0w-30 is going to give you the same viscosity grade over OCI. Ow-40 thins out as I believe it's been documented.
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
[I think This came about when I stated 502.00 0w-40 is just like 0w-30 504.00 and EDYVW chimed in. But you confirm my point, there's no need for a FS 0W-40 502.00 when the 0w-30 is going to give you the same viscosity grade over OCI. Ow-40 thins out as I believe it's been documented.
I haven't seen anything that shows that on Mobil 1 0W-40 the past couple of years since the formulation changes. Besides, most of the UOA on here are from Blackstone who have demonstrated they cannot measure viscosity properly. We've seen retests by them that show significantly different viscosity measurement results on the same sample. Has anyone posted anything for Castrol 0W-40? Aside from that it truly is impossible to determine from their UOA whether an observed viscosity deviation is due to fuel dilution (which wouldn't be related to the lubricant) or to mechanical shear (which is largely engine dependent). All of the Mercedes-Benz, VW and Porsche approvals those oils have include a stay-in-grade requirement.
 
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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
the max viscosity @100C for 30 is <12.5 cSt there is no overlap between 30 and 40 viscosity @100C (according to SAE J300), that one can make a generalization that a high 30 can be considered as a low 40. A regular GTI 2.0TSI also calls for 508.00, supposedly the oil pump was changed for it, but 508.00/509.00 is all for the emissions and that few percentage bump in fuel economy that 508/509 claims
Agree. Figured that was self-explanatory as in the example 504 M1 5w30 ESP is as 12.0 cst which is a "heavy 30" and the M1 FS 0w40 at 12.9 is a "light 40". I bet it's not possible for find a 30 weight A3/B4 or C3 oil at less than 12cst.
I think This came about when I stated 502.00 0w-40 is just like 0w-30 504.00 and EDYVW chimed in. But you confirm my point, there's no need for a FS 0W-40 502.00 when the 0w-30 is going to give you the same viscosity grade over OCI. Ow-40 thins out as I believe it's been documented.
Absolutely NOT correct. Where is documented? Which oil is documented? Mobil1 0W40 FS and Castrol Edge 0W40 have only one thing in common: grade. Base stocks are different etc. SO, how can you say that 0W40 does not stay in grade when we are, at least here, talking about two different oils? Mobil1and Castrol 0W40 are known to actually be very stout and stay in grade. In normal operating conditions prescribed by vehicle manufacturer Mobil1 0W40 FS and Edge 0W40 must stay in grade otherwise would not get VW 502.00, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 approvals as all those approvals require "stay in grade" performance over manufacturer prescribed OCI. Things that can influence stay in grade performance, especially in DI engines are fuel dilution, short trips etc. Precisely for that reason, heavier oil is better choice.
 
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jfrankh

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Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
That's fair. This crowd is tough on Newbies.and in 6 pages Of thread, no consensus. I'll just say this, look at the Lubrizol graph and the other chart I posted with comparison across the various certifications. To me, I'd rather have the best for my engine, and clearly, there are differences. So use your judgement when you look at these two tools and make your own decision. I think VW is on to something with this newer certification, so that's what I'm using. Good luck on your search and enjoy the ride. Love mine, hate the MPGs, but I knew what I was getting into.
Thanks I appreciate that. And I appreciate all the comments and advice people have given. I never imagined we'd be 9 pages deep and still going about what is what. I decided to return the LiquiMoly and go with the M1 0W-30 ESP thats 504.00 approved. From what I've seen on here and other forums the 504.00 just seems to be the better choice. And I love mine also, I don't mind the gas mileage so much as I wish it had a bigger tank and my one huge pet peeve with it was the silly halogen fog lights with the led headlights. It looked so stupid! Such a nice looking car and they throw cheap halogen on the fogs! Shame on VW!
 
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I know my Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 (VW502 00) gets into the 30w range but as has been mentioned above, could be fuel dilution even though that isn't indicated by Blackstone - but I know many say their analysis doesn't show it. I'm tuned and pushing 23 psi of boost etc. so could all be related.

viscosity.JPG
 
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Messages
120
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Originally Posted by jfrankh
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
That's fair. This crowd is tough on Newbies.and in 6 pages Of thread, no consensus. I'll just say this, look at the Lubrizol graph and the other chart I posted with comparison across the various certifications. To me, I'd rather have the best for my engine, and clearly, there are differences. So use your judgement when you look at these two tools and make your own decision. I think VW is on to something with this newer certification, so that's what I'm using. Good luck on your search and enjoy the ride. Love mine, hate the MPGs, but I knew what I was getting into.
Thanks I appreciate that. And I appreciate all the comments and advice people have given. I never imagined we'd be 9 pages deep and still going about what is what. I decided to return the LiquiMoly and go with the M1 0W-30 ESP thats 504.00 approved. From what I've seen on here and other forums the 504.00 just seems to be the better choice. And I love mine also, I don't mind the gas mileage so much as I wish it had a bigger tank and my one huge pet peeve with it was the silly halogen fog lights with the led headlights. It looked so stupid! Such a nice looking car and they throw cheap halogen on the fogs! Shame on VW!
Haha! I eco your sentiments on the ride myself. I've got the same criticisms although it will be addressed with the ‘21s in Summer. Same facia as on the cross sport. Too bad I couldn't wait. Good choice on that oil. Enjoy the ride
 
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