US Miltary News - F22

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Some pretty recent news on the F-22. I saw "Crash" at an airshow a few years ago.
 

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Like the funny car announcer when the numbers post: That dude is bad - bad - bad ! One of our strengths is a balanced mix of fit for purpose planes and upgrades keep them competitive The F15, F16, and F/A18 Super Hornets are still serious fighters and Wart Hogs could still kill ground hogs … Stealth bombers have been around a long time now … and how long has it been since B52 pilots were not younger than the bomber?
 
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F-22 = 02 TransAM WS6 6MT with a blower F-35 = 02 Cadillac DTS with CEL and white clouds coming out the exhaust.
 
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Hi Much talk is made of stealth and killing the other guy before he even knows the f22 is there but the weakest link in this in my opinion is the AMRAAM missile. It does not have a good record. 63% success and that is against some less than stellar opposition. Kills beyond visual range are fine with a missile that does not fail 37% of the time. I suppose at least the F22 can dogfight unlike the F35B we have bought that can only pull limited G.
 
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Although the F35 is the best VTOL ever its no match for a dedicated scrapper like the Raptor... the F22 would indeed dominate in a dog fight and the only way we may see an F22 caught in a F35s gun sight is if it's runway is bomb crater... F22 King F35 Jack Like a Jack to a King the F22 will kill anything.... [Linked Image]
 
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BLS I absolutely agree with you. I just think the F22 needs a better beyond visual range missile to make full use of stealth. RAF are using the new MBDA Meteor Missile but as of yet it is not combat tested.
 
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I wouldn't write the F35 off in a fight with the F-22 just yet. Until fully upgraded, (and maybe not even then) it has nowhere near the situational awareness of the F-35, and the F-35's stealth is a newer generation. The F-35 will know where even F-22's are before they know where he is, in most situations. The bad press of the notorious F-35 vs F-16 dogfight was based on a total misunderstanding of the conditions. The F-35 was severely power and aero restricted in that test, being a development aircraft that had was electronically limited to lower G capability. Today's "unleashed" F-35 would be a match for the F-16, and if the gloves were completely off, with all advantages available, the F-16 would have died not knowing what hit it or from where. There was an Air Force pilot with over 4k hours in the F-16 that transitioned to the F-35. He said he'd take the F-35 in ANY scenario over the F-16 if he were to go into combat today. In fact, he said he'd take it over anything else flying, including the F-22, because of the situational awareness. He who sees first shoots first. It is that simple. He said the F-35 sees everybody first, by a wide margin. The good news is that the F-22 and F-35 fight on the same team and compliment each other. That's bad news for any potential foes. It is also bad news for Russia that we have hundreds of F-35s now on the flightline and an entire wing combat operational (just the Air Force), in addition to Marine F-35's that have been fully deployed on assault carriers, when they don't even have a single SU57 operational yet. I do agree that it was a huge mistake to end F-22 production. It would have only taken $600 million a year to keep the line going, producing 6 aircraft per year. That's an entire squadron every 4. Dumb move by Gates and Obama. They have all the tooling in storage and could theoretically restart production, but the cost is just prohibitive, especially for a design that old.
 
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Originally Posted by IndyFan
I do agree that it was a huge mistake to end F-22 production. It would have only taken $600 million a year to keep the line going, producing 6 aircraft per year. That's an entire squadron every 4. Dumb move by Gates and Obama. They have all the tooling in storage and could theoretically restart production, but the cost is just prohibitive, especially for a design that old.
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist? I have a cousin who's now retired (AF Col.) who worked on/led various teams which were tasked upgrading engines/avionics of various aircraft within the fleet. About 15 yrs ago we were talking about the F22 as they were being assembled/flight tested near a house I was renting at the time. At the time he lamented that one of the biggest problems with the F22 was that due to the various delays and long development time many of the electronic components were no longer being manufactured in the US by the time the first aircraft were rolling off the line. He joked that at the time Lockeed Martin and the AF were in the middle of a spat over who would pay for an F22 whose airframe was bent during a flight by a LM test pilot.
 
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Originally Posted by IndyFan
I do agree that it was a huge mistake to end F-22 production. It would have only taken $600 million a year to keep the line going, producing 6 aircraft per year. That's an entire squadron every 4. Dumb move by Gates and Obama. They have all the tooling in storage and could theoretically restart production, but the cost is just prohibitive, especially for a design that old.
What is higher chance: fighting China next year or some sheepherder in the middle of desert next year?
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?
The F-35 program is spending way more money than the F-22 program ever did.
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?
The F-35 program is spending way more money than the F-22 program ever did.
Perhaps but the F22 has but one role for only one branch whereas the F35 is designed to do much more by serving at least two branches. In addition the F35 would've been cheaper if the USMC didn't have their stupid V/STOL requirement.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
$600 million/year to fight an enemy which will never exist?
The F-35 program is spending way more money than the F-22 program ever did.
Perhaps but the F22 has but one role for only one branch whereas the F35 is designed to do much more by serving at least two branches. In addition the F35 would've been cheaper if the USMC didn't have their stupid V/STOL requirement.
The F22 would have been cheaper per unit too if they didn't cancel the program right when it was at the point where production was pretty much optimized. And keep in mind that every fighter aircraft program has constant upgrades and maintenance costs ... so the F-35 program wouldn't be any better in that respect as time went on. Also, the whole development program of the F-22 (first 5th Gen super stealth fighter) served them well to use lots of the same technology and lessons learned when designing the F-35, so that could have helped make the per unit cost of F-35s lower.
 
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Worked on F22 program in EMD & full scale mfg. Without getting into classified material, the capabilities of F22 will remain classified at least in my life. One of the reason the program was curtailed was end of the Cold war and Congress has specifically banned it from being exported. There were countries that were interested in buying i.e. like Japan but since Congress had prohibited it's sale; the cost of the development could not be spread. The F35 was a substitute instead.
 
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Or was the program cancelled because there is already a newer more capable secret fighter? If i remember the f-117 flew missions before the public even knew it existed.
 
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Originally Posted by DallasTexas
Without getting into classified material, the capabilities of F22 will remain classified at least in my life.
I believe it. My friend is an F-22 pilot. Even after a few beers, he tells me very little. Just to egg him on, I started rattling off some the readily available stuff off the internet, all he does is shake his head and mumble "Mmmmm…. nope, wrong" or "Does it really say that? Wrong wrong wrong" or similar. I flat out asked him "What's the fastest you've had it? Flat out, nose down, fairly steep dive... how fast?" all he would do is stare into the distance, take a swig of his beer, look back at me and smile and say "Pretty dang fast, my man". He wouldn't tell me a thing. I've known this guy for decades, all I get is silence and non-answers.
 
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Originally Posted by DallasTexas
Worked on F22 program in EMD & full scale mfg. Without getting into classified material, the capabilities of F22 will remain classified at least in my life. One of the reason the program was curtailed was end of the Cold war and Congress has specifically banned it from being exported. There were countries that were interested in buying i.e. like Japan but since Congress had prohibited it's sale; the cost of the development could not be spread. The F35 was a substitute instead.
Just because it wasn't sold to any other countries doesn't mean it can't be used around the world by the USA for military purposes ... it has been, and very successfully. Just because the "cold war ended" (per some peoples' opinion in Congress) doesn't mean another cold war or a real war could never happen again. Look at the state of the world today ... seems having more fighters like the F-22 wouldn't be a bad thing. And I don't fully think the F-35 is a better "replacement".
 
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Spasm3, Quint, ZeroOSix Agree with you guys. Fortunately we live in a democracy (I came from a 3rd world dictatorship country). And if Congress doesn't fund, the program shuts down. I feel very privileged to have come to this great country almost penny less, go to college at my own expenses and getting to work on some of this nation's biggest secrets that will never see the daylight in my....... As far as black programs, possibly there could be a good substitute for F22 (Aurora?) and yes F35 is not even close to F22 capabilities; Quint your Friend knows to keep his mouth shut, he doesn't want to spend rest of his life in Ft. Leavenworth. Back to F22, the world was a very different place when the program was terminated after the production run. It was a common understanding even within the program and Congress that drones would be replacing a manned fighter plane (drones were being developed & classified then). My 2¢.
 
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