This is very depressing

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A woman with a history of postnatal depression told an emergency operator she had cut off the arms of her baby daughter, then waited calmly until police arrived.

She was charged with murder after the child died in hospital on Tuesday.

Authorities found Dena Schlosser, 35, and her fatally injured 11-month-old baby after the child's father called a day-care centre and asked them to check on his wife and daughter in the Dallas suburb of Plano.

Schlosser sat calmly in the living room when officers arrived. Her clothes were covered in blood and the baby lay in her crib in a back bedroom.

Schlosser told police she was responsible for the baby's injuries but declined to elaborate, police said.

They did not say whether investigators recovered a knife or another weapon.

"It doesn't appear to be accidental. Both arms were completely severed," police officer Carl Duke said. "She was not talking when she left here. She was very quiet, subdued."

Plano police said the child's injuries were horrifying.

"I've never had to face anything like this before," said Detective Bryan Wood. "And, frankly, I'd never want to. My sympathies go out to the family, and to the first responders on the scene."

After the father's call, day-care workers called the police-fire emergency number and an operator then phoned the mother.

The operator asked Schlosser if there was an emergency, according to audiotapes obtained by Dallas-Fort Worth TV station KDFW. Schlosser calmly responded: "Yes."

"Exactly what happened?" the operator asked.

"I cut her arms off," Schlosser replied, as the hymn He Touched Me played in the background.

Child-protection authorities said the mother had shown signs of postnatal depression earlier this year, but there had been no signs of violence.

Schlosser lived at the apartment with other family members, including her two older daughters.

The girls, aged 6 and 9, were at school and their father was at work when police arrived, Officer Duke said.

Texas Child Protective Services was called to the home in January after Schlosser was seen running down the street from her apartment, with one of her daughters, then 5, bicycling after her, authorities said.

When police and child protection officers arrived, the child told them her mother had left her then six-day-old baby sister alone in the apartment.

Schlosser appeared at the time to be suffering from postnatal depression and seemed to be having a psychotic episode, said Marissa Gonzales, a child protection spokeswoman.

At the time Schlosser was hospitalised for a few days. Her other two daughters were released to their father, who told authorities Schlosser had been acting strangely since the birth of the third child.

Once she was released from the hospital, Schlosser agreed to seek counselling and see a psychiatrist, Ms Gonzales said.

Caseworkers continued to visit the family through the spring and summer, and the case was closed August 9.

"There were never any indications of violence with this family," Ms Gonzales said. "The children had always been healthy, happy and cared for."

Ms Gonzales said child protection officers were interviewing Schlosser's other children and would talk to the father before deciding whether to remove the children from the home.

Neighbours said she seemed to be a loving, attentive mother.

Dena Livingston, 43, said she saw Schlosser making her rounds with the stroller on Monday. She saw her on Friday waiting with her baby outside the school the older girls attend.

"She didn't give off like she was in a distant world or didn't care about the baby," Ms Livingston said.
 
Isn't it a shame that the most important job in the world (parent) requires the least amount of demonstrated skill/responsibility?
 
Man, that really hits home. I have a 12 month old daughter. God, just the thought of that sends pain up and down my spine. Now, the freakin' "expert" psychologist will say that she was suffering from depression of some sort. Gee, that's funny, the other kids seem OK and aren't messing any limbs. This, my good friends, isn't a psychotic episode, this bea-itch is freakin' DEMONIC.
freak2.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by sprintman:

Neighbours said she seemed to be a loving, attentive mother.


"She didn't give off like she was in a distant world or didn't care about the baby," Ms Livingston said.


I think that folks with issue don't have them 24/7. They come in episodes, and usually go away fairly quickly (30 minutes or less) Usually the episodes grow stronger with time. Unless treated (usually with drugs) the end result you see above will happen.

Too bad, this had to happen, if she was consuled by a professional why didn't they see this stuff happening?
 
Depression? That's a bunch of garbage! No way on earth that this kind of atrocious behavior can be passed of as some kind of "illness" or "disease". Murder is murder. Give her the chair.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Especially YOUR OWN CHILD???

At least it was her own child, instead of someone else's. Whatever mental disorder caused this won't be perpetuated through the child anymore. It kind of works itself out. Sad though.
 
This is disturbing to any rational person. This is obviously a woman with an extreme condition that was undected for its severity.

Most of you haven't seen truly psychotic individuals. I've seen people believe that they are on fire and have everything from visual to alfactory halucinations. Most that we see merely hear voices and become dysfunctional from a social standpoint ..but others have more severe reactions.

There was one girl that I worked with that was, for the most part, a perfectly lovely and functional teenager. She had to be institutionalized about ever 12 weeks. There was no indicator that she was "due" for an episode.

Another extremely social and attractive girl would routinely slash her wrists. She was perfectly functional in all other apparent aspects of her life. It was deemed better for her to take her chances in an unstructured enviroment ..rather than leave her institutionalized.

This is a very sad outcome of a very sad condition that this woman had.


quote:

Give her the chair.

This will deter others from suffering from this mental affliction? I wasn't aware that outlawing mental illness ..or legislating ever increasing plenalties for mental illness could make it not occur. If so ...contact your lawmaker for a rapid solution to these types of things.

[ November 24, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
 
Yeah, but being depressed and all that is one thing, but cutting off the arms???? That is not depression. How in the world can you justify anything like that to yourself? Especially YOUR OWN CHILD??? There isn't a term that I can think of that gets remotely close. How many times has this happened in the past? I'm talk throughout time. You've NEVER heard of something like this from way-back-when. And please, spare me the pscychological aspects of reasoning. This is just simply demonic, plain and simple.
 
"How in the world can you justify anything like that to yourself?"

a sick mind does not need nor comprehend logic.
 
quote:

Originally posted by andrews:
Depression? That's a bunch of garbage! No way on earth that this kind of atrocious behavior can be passed of as some kind of "illness" or "disease". Murder is murder. Give her the chair.

to me... "the chair" isn't good enough. I think 15 minutes with an 8lbs hammer would send a message.

-Bret
 
quote:

Originally posted by 47HO:
Isn't it a shame that the most important job in the world (parent) requires the least amount of demonstrated skill/responsibility?

While I have never experienced anything this horrific, I have seen some pretty sick things when it comes to children. I am currently waiting for a subpoena regarding the murder of a 4 month old child. The father has been charged. 2 of the 4 ems providers on the call have already been called.

We have always joked at work that people should be born without reproductive organs. On their 18th birthday, there should be a test, administered by god, to see if they can then be issued their reproductive organs.

To lighten the mood a bit - About 10 years ago, a mother called 911 for an ambulance because her infant had a temp of 98.2F. She was seriously concerned that her baby had a temperature.

I would rather respond to this type of call all day than one where abuse or neglect is involved.
 
One of my female relatives actually stood up for this woman in Texas, saying that I "just do not understand postpartum depression". Get real. People with genuine depression do not generally kill others. They might harm themselves, but an act like this is over the top. Like most of us, at times I've been severely depressed, so I have some idea.

If this had been the father cutting off his 11-month-old daughter's arms leading to her death, there would be no question about convicting him of capital murder and either flipping the switch or prepping his arm for the lethal injection. But women get away with this by copping pleas of "hormones" or "PMS" or "depression" or "mental illness". Witness the Andrea Yates case, also in Texas. She was the one who drowned her five children. She didn't get death. Ditto for Susan Smith, the South Carolina woman who drowned her two children in her car several years ago. The redneck jury fell for a sob story about her being molested as a minor and gave her prison instead of death. In these instances, if the fathers had done these acts, they would probably have been lynched long before trial anyway. That's how angry people would have been.

Mental illness and mental retardation are becoming the newest excuses for leniency for a wide range of crimes, and US courts are beginning to back this notion. However, as a Supreme Court justice said years ago, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Instead of allowing people with mental issues to run amok and harm others, perhaps we should require their institutionalization unless they are demonstrated to be harmless to others.

Why many of these people are out in public is an excellent question anyway. The next person to be killed by someone with a "mental illness" might otherwise be you. And last I checked, you'll be just as dead as if a "normal" perp had killed you.
 
Just as a reality check in this horrible incident: Every generation throughout time tended to think theirs was the pinicale of decadence and decay and was on the verge of collapse. Of course, some were right. I wonder if we are?
frown.gif
 
about an year ago, I heard on the radio about the woman in a town in TN who refused to take her very sick baby to the doctor, because she insisted that "god" will help her. The baby died after 2 weeks, and the mother was charged with murder. (the mother was not mentally or physically sick; that's the saddest part).
 
I have a 7 1/2 month old daughter. I cannot imagine what those guys responding felt like.

When my daughter was about 4 months old we responded to a bad car wreck. There was a 6 month old little girl that was injured and later died. Kid calls had always hurt in the past, but this time was different, I could relate. When we got back to the station I walked out back and balled my eyes out. ALL I wanted to do was come home and hold my little girl. The remaining 10 or 11 hours in that shift were the longest of my life.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and especially those poor guys that had to run that call.
 
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