Thin or thick (TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40): Final verdict

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Originally Posted by batook
Originally Posted by Gokhan
BOQI is great! It can distinguish between PAO, GTL, Group III, and Group II. Everyone should benefit from this knowledge. What other magical touchstone can tell you what base oil is inside a motor oil? If you don't believe it, that's fine -- I won't hold it against you.
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I'm not too familiar with BOQI and how it can be used to distinguish between the different base oil types. If you wouldn't mind, can you please explain a little further how the BOQI can be used to determine this? Also, how did you find out the BOQI of the M1 0W-20 EP? I don't see it listed on their product data sheet; is it something you have to request from them?


They won't give you that info, because it isn't a real thing. It's a made up index by Gokhan.
 
I replaced the leaking Toyota OEM valve-cover gasket set with Fel-Pro. Somehow the nuts had got loose, probably because the OEM washers were too hard. Incredibly, even to my surprise, no oil had got on the timing belt. I like the soft brass case on the Fel-Pro washers that should help not loosen. I will stick with Fel-Pro from now on. I first tightened the nuts to 10 lbfâ‹…ft and then realized that it was too tight and then reset them to 4 lbfâ‹…ft. I put Permatex Ultra Grey on the corners as usual.

I replaced the spark plugs with OEM U-groove Nippondenso W16EXR-U11 after regapping them to the 1.1 mm spec. Old spark plugs were in good condition -- no sign of oil burning and minimal wear. I replaced the air filter with Toyota OEM Made in Japan. To my delight, it came in a nice vintage-style box (see the pics).

I set the tire pressure to 37 psi.

It took forever (10 seconds or more?) for the 19.0 oz XG3600 to prime and the oil light to go off -- I was about to turn off the engine. The XG3600 installed with ample clearance.

Dino (well, Group III) TGMO 0W-20 SN and the tiny M1-103 semisynthetic filter (9.1 oz?) are out, PAO Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS and Fram Ultra XG3600 full synthetic (19.0 oz) are in. I drove for about 100 mi to have the new PAO-based oil work in. The car effortlessly glides with the engine sounding like a fine musical instrument. Driving is fun again.

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Originally Posted by Gokhan
I replaced the leaking Toyota OEM valve-cover gasket set with Fel-Pro. Somehow the nuts had got loose, probably because the OEM washers were too hard. Incredibly, even to my surprise, no oil had got on the timing belt. I like the soft brass case on the Fel-Pro washers that should help not loosen. I will stick with Fel-Pro from now on. I first tightened the nuts to 10 lbfâ‹…ft and then realized that it was too tight and then reset them to 4 lbfâ‹…ft. I put Permatex Ultra Grey on the corners as usual.

I replaced the spark plugs with OEM U-groove Nippondenso W16EXR-U11 after regapping them to the 1.1 mm spec. Old spark plugs were in good condition -- no sign of oil burning and minimal wear. I replaced the air filter with Toyota OEM Made in Japan. To my delight, it came in a nice vintage-style box (see the pics).

I set the tire pressure to 37 psi.

It took forever (10 seconds or more?) for the 19.0 oz XG3600 to prime and the oil light to go off -- I was about to turn off the engine. The XG3600 installed with ample clearance.

Dino (well, Group III) TGMO 0W-20 SN and the tiny M1-103 semisynthetic filter (9.1 oz?) are out, PAO Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS and Fram Ultra XG3600 full synthetic (19.0 oz) are in. I drove for about 100 mi to have the new PAO-based oil work in. The car effortlessly glides with the engine sounding like a fine musical instrument. Driving is fun again.

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No disrespect, but I'm not impressed with the visual condition of the valve train. The oil used prior didn't do much cleaning/if any at all.
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It reminds me [only worse] of the 2000 Buick Century I owned getting 3K dino OCI;s since new. It looked something like that with just 80K miles on it and no mechanical issues.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Honestly, if my engine had 272,000 miles on it I would expect some varnish.

Yep, doesn't look that bad.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
No disrespect, but I'm not impressed with the visual condition of the valve train. The oil used prior didn't do much cleaning/if any at all.
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It reminds me [only worse] of the 2000 Buick Century I owned getting 3K dino OCI;s since new. It looked something like that with just 80K miles on it and no mechanical issues.

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by PimTac
Honestly, if my engine had 272,000 miles on it I would expect some varnish.
Yep, doesn't look that bad.

The engine has over 272,000 miles. I ran synthetic only in the last 28,000 miles -- four OCIs of a little under 6,000 miles each with TGMO 0W-20 and one with M1 0W-40. Previously, it was all dino, such as 10W-30, 10W-40, and 15W-40. Also, until in 1988, the oil available used only the 1979 API SF or SF/CC technology, with the API CC being the 1961 technology. Nevertheless, the last five synthetic OCIs seem to have made a little or no difference. I have some pictures when I was using 15W-40 and they look similar.

I don't see any sludge and the cam lobes look in excellent shape. I don't think I have any valvetrain problems; so, the varnish doesn't seem to affect anything. Note that these are sliding, not roller, rocker arms. I didn't bother to adjust the valve clearances (through the screws in the picture) this time, as it has to be done with a hot engine. I figured since the valvetrain wear is so low, they hardly change in a few 10k miles.

This picture is taken without flash and things look a little better.

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^^My point is 28K of synthetic oil and little to no cleaning at all. I've seen HM engines here a lot cleaner, that's all I'm saying. My bet is had synthetic oil been used the entire 272k+ miles the engine would be a lot cleaner. For 80K miles on Dino my 00 Century looked like a mess to me.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
^^My point is 28K of synthetic oil and little to no cleaning at all. I've seen HM engines here a lot cleaner, that's all I'm saying. My bet is had synthetic oil been used the entire 272k+ miles the engine would be a lot cleaner. For 80K miles on Dino my 00 Century looked like a mess to me.

I think you're right that synthetic doesn't clean an engine that's already dirty. POE- and AN-based synthetics would be exceptions, Valvoline Restore being one. Perhaps, some Mobil 1 oils also have more ester (POE) than others. It certainly helps keep an engine clean to run a good synthetic.

Back in the 1990s, synthetic was an afterthought. Some people, including me, were scared of synthetics. I might have seen it on the official Toyota website or some other official-sounding place that they did not recommend synthetic oil. These days, synthetics are the only oils I use.

In any case, the valvetrain varnish seems be a cosmetic issue. I don't think my pistons are dirty at all.

Speaking of varnish, the carburetor was a lot worse when I rebuilt it. The thick yellow stuff was everywhere. I cleaned it thoroughly with Gumout carburetor cleaner. These days, I only use Chevron with Techron, staying with 87 octane.

Scroll to the 13:20 of the following video:

http://pixa.club/en/the-simpsons/season-14/epizod-7-special-edna
 
Are you going to cut open your oil filter after this OCI? Be interesting if the M1 EP frees some particulate like it did with my Expedition.
 
I never so such heavy varnish in any of my engines that used conventional oil. That must've been neglected before you acquired it?
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Are you going to cut open your oil filter after this OCI? Be interesting if the M1 EP frees some particulate like it did with my Expedition.

Perhaps, I should.

Originally Posted by CR94
I never so such heavy varnish in any of my engines that used conventional oil. That must've been neglected before you acquired it?

Yes, it was neglected and abused by the two Taiwanese graduate-student owners when I acquired it with 97,000 miles and as 10-years-old. I had to do a lot of work on it.
 
Originally Posted by CR94
I never so such heavy varnish in any of my engines that used conventional oil. That must've been neglected before you acquired it?


Some conventional oils (especially back in the 80s and 90s) caused more varnish build up than others. I had a 1989 Toytoa V6 pickup that I used Toyota conventional oil in, and it had a similar varnish build up with less than 100K miles.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
I saw a lot of that kind of varnish back in the 80's and 90's running Castrol GTX.


Me too!
Haven't purchased Castrol since, but the Black Edge and Magnatec Syn look good these days for 5-7K OCIs.
I'll never buy GTX conventional again., because of all that varnish.
 
Originally Posted by CR94
I never so such heavy varnish in any of my engines ...
Oops, I meant "saw much," not "so such." Sorry.
 
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... Some conventional oils (especially back in the 80s and 90s) caused more varnish build up than others. ...
Back then (and earlier), I got what I called sludge (slilvery-gray clay-like deposits) with some brands of oil, not with others. I never saw much varnish of the sort in Gokhan's Corolla.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by PimTac
I saw a lot of that kind of varnish back in the 80's and 90's running Castrol GTX.

Me too!
Haven't purchased Castrol since, but the Black Edge and Magnatec Syn look good these days for 5-7K OCIs.
I'll never buy GTX conventional again., because of all that varnish.

In the mid-to-late 1990s and early-to-mid 2000s, Castrol GTX used to be my favorite oil. I initially used 10W-40 and later started using 10W-30 because it would give significantly better fuel economy. I used to see which oil would come up with the latest API category (SH, SJ, and SL back then, I remember SI being skipped because of SI units) and then buy it. Sometimes Valvoline would come up first but Castrol GTX was my favorite oil for most of the time.

Later I used Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4/SM before going synthetic SN in the last 28,000 miles, with a PYB 5W-20 OCI in between.

100,000 - 127,300 10W-40, probably Castrol GTX or perhaps some Valvoline, didn't record
127,300 Castrol GTX 10W-40
136,697 Castrol GTX 10W-40 (?)
143,744 Castrol GTX 10W-40
145,900 Valvoline 10W-40
148,450 Valvoline 10W-30
150,748 Valvoline 10W-30
154,337 Chevron Delo 15W-40 CH-4/SJ
155,010 Castrol GTX 10W-30
156,729 Castrol GTX 10W-30
162,843 Castrol GTX 10W-30
167,093 Castrol GTX 10W-30
170,200 Valvoline 10W-30
172,456 Valvoline 10W-30
174,480 Valvoline 10W-30
179,538 Valvoline 10W-30
181,669 Valvoline 10W-30
185,447 Valvoline 10W-30
188,107 Castrol GTX 10W-30
191,121 Castrol GTX 10W-30
193,802 Castrol GTX 10W-30
197,729 Castrol GTX 10W-30
200,279 Castrol GTX 10W-30
202,445 Castrol GTX 10W-30
205,445 Castrol GTX 10W-30
208,370 Castrol GTX 10W-30
210,301 Castrol GTX 10W-30
211,169 Castrol GTX 10W-30
211,489 Castrol Tection 15W-40 CJ-4/SM
213,017 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
214,796 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
217,508 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
219,483 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
219,638 Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30
220,500 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
224,463 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
226,406 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
229,598 Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5W-30
229,706 Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30
230,794 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
232,089 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
238,041 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ-4/SM
238,297 Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5W-20
243,729 Toyota 0W-20
249,035 Toyota 0W-20
255,194 Toyota 0W-20
261,060 Mobil 1 0W-40
266,485 Toyota 0W-20
272,206 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20
 
The varnish appears to just be visual. I wouldn't worry about it, and I wouldn't count on a PAO oil doing much cleaning... not enough polarity.
 
It looks ugly, but at that mileage and with the car running well it obviously isn't a problem. Good little car!
 
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